Locomotive Number's

[Mikeygaw]

Exactly how are the locomotive numbers determined? are they just assigned where ever there is a spot when acquire? is a certain set of numbers reserved for certain types of engines? Are the numbers company specific, or can there be a same numbered engine for every company (ie, is there only one 4596, or could there be a CSX 4596, a NS 4596, etc)?

[Anonymous]

Yes, the same number can be used by different companies. Right now, the KCS

[Anonymous]

I'm not exactly sure, but I think that the numbers are selective towards a type of locomotive. In "The Railroad Encyclopedia" for example, FL9 diesils were numbered 2000-2059. Of course, some duplicates may occur, because I have been told that UP has two locomotives numbered 844, the Challenger locomotive (Numbered 8444 when on mainline service) and a diesil numbered 844.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I must have hit a bad key.
Right now, the KCS is starting a 5-7 year plan to re-number ALL of its locomotives to help identify its horsepower rating--all 1500 hp units (SW1500/MP15ACs) will be 1500-series, GP38s will be 2000-series, GP40s 3000-series, SD40s will be 6000 (here you double the HP rating for 6-axle engines), SD50s 7000-series, SD45s 7200 series, their new GE AC4400s the 8800-series.

I'm sure I missed a model or 2. Their old Midsouth engines will not be renumbered.

Some companies number them by model.

The big yellow RR had so many locos, they had to apply for and obtained a new set of reporting marks (UPY) for their yard switchers.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I must have hit a bad key.
Right now, the KCS is starting a 5-7 year plan to re-number ALL of its locomotives to help identify its horsepower rating--all 1500 hp units (SW1500/MP15ACs) will be 1500-series, GP38s will be 2000-series, GP40s 3000-series, SD40s will be 6000 (here you double the HP rating for 6-axle engines), SD50s 7000-series, SD45s 7200 series, their new GE AC4400s the 8800-series.

I'm sure I missed a model or 2. Their old Midsouth engines will not be renumbered.

Some companies number them by model.

The big yellow RR had so many locos, they had to apply for and obtained a new set of reporting marks (UPY) for their yard switchers.

[Anonymous]

Earlier this spring I noticed a weird pattern in the way Alaska Railroad numbered their locomotives. So I went to the yard and found an engeneer in an idling locomotive and asked him. He told me that locomives are numbered to identify their horsepower rating (as mentioned above).(And by the way, i forgot to ask the guy a for a cab ride... oh well, maybe next time[:p]) Here are examples of how locos are numbered on ARR (they are the current locos only)
MP15 1500HP #1551-1554
GP38-2 2000HP #2001-2008
GP49 2800HP #2801-2809
GP40-2 3000HP #3001-3015
SD70MAC 4000HP #4001- 4016
SD70MAC (coming spring 2004) 4317-4324 (There is additional 300HP for HEP, last two numbers start with 17 to avoid confusion with previous SD70's)

Notice how last number is never a zero (2001 but not 2000, 3001 not 3000)?
Its simple - they ran out of zeroes!

Not all railroads do that, however.

[Anonymous]

Just to present some evidence:
Here are two photos, both locos are GP38-2, have the same number, but are owned by two different companies.
Photo one: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=41398
Photo two: http://www.alaskarails.org/pix/loco-roster/PD-2001.html

Notice the caption under the last photo - and tha was almost a year ago! See what I mean when I say "I'm tired of all the snow"?

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: The big yellow RR had so many locos, they had to apply for and obtained a new set of reporting marks (UPY) for their yard switchers.

I was wondering what that was all about...

But then, one wants to ask, why are the railroads afraid to use five-digit road numbers?

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Notice how last number is never a zero (2001 but not 2000, 3001 not 3000)?
Its simple - they ran out of zeroes!

This may have been done for accounting purposes. If you had ten locomotives numbered 2000-2009, how many engines do you actually have? (Ten.) It's much more obvious when the first engine is 2001 and the last 2010.

[dehusman]

Locomotives are numbered by each individual railroad, so there will be more than one locomotive with the same number in the US, but for each roadname/initinal there will only be one of each number.

The locomotives can be numbered as an opening comes up (the Pennsy did it this way for the most part) or it can be numbered into specific class and groups. All the SD60's with wide cabs are 6000 series, all the ones with narrow cabs are 5900 series, for example. Its totally at the railroad's discretion.

Whether the number series starts at 0 or 1 is also pretty random and just depends on the railroads practices, some start even some start odd, no real difference or reason beside personal preference on the part of the guy in charge of setting up the numbers.

The US doesn't use 5 digit engine numbers because it never has had to. If there is another merger , it might be necessary just because the railroad might then own more than 9999 engines. It may also be that some computer systems are set up to only accept a 4 digit engine number (as they are set up to only accept a 6 digit car number).

Dave H.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Four-digit locomotive numbers in the United States and Canada are more a matter of custom than anything else although rewriting various computer programs may be another factor today. The numbering patterns of various railroads are probably based on company policy and will vary from each other.
It's interesting to note that except for small groups of booster units and slugs, letter prefixes have not been used until the UPY series was established (look at the number boards on UPY locomotives). Letter and number prefixes are not unusual overseas and may become necessary in North America, especially if the next round of mergers eventually occurs.

[JoeKoh]

Csx has started a renumbering plan a few years ago.I saw #3 a week ago.
stay safe
Joe

[tree68]

Some small railroads used the year of acquisition as the engine number. Thus, an engine purchased in 1951 would be - 1951. This obviously only works if there are a few locos and they never get more than one per year. You might still find some of them in service.

IC numbered diesels by model in the 70's. If I recall correctly the GP40s were 6000's. I could be wrong, but it is an example.

[locomutt]

I'm not sure this would have any bearing,
but the county school system uses the year
for their no. system. Ex. A bus bought in 03,
Is bus no. 03--. One bought in 1999, is 99--
Help,or confuse [?]
Remains to be seen. And now the other side of the Story[:p]
locomutt[8]

[AltonFan]

In the early days of dieselization, it was not unusual for railroads to add a letter after a road number. (A road diesel was usually a cab unit - EMD F-units or ALCO FA/Bs - which always ran in multiple.) Part of the reason for this was the fear that the unions would insist on each unit being manned with an engineer and fireman. So the railroads would number each engine in a set 100A, 100B, 100C, 100D, with 100A and 100D having cabs, and 100B and 100C being cabless B-units. All four units would be considered a single locomotive, and sometimes the units were semi-permanently connected by drawbars rather than couplers.

QUOTE: The locomotives can be numbered as an opening comes up (the Pennsy did it this way for the most part)...

This is affectionately known as the "numbers game", and the C&NW did this during the steam era, creating a nightmare for railroad historians and motive power enthusiasts that will never end...

[DTomajko]

The PRR assigned number blocks to individual regions instead of locomotive groups.There might be every class of steam engine in a number group in a division and a new engine was assigned a number from that division's group.In the early days,the PRR didn't move engines among divisions very often so this confusing system worked for them.I believe with the introduction of the M1 4-8-2s that Pennsy changed over to a locomotive group numbering plan,(about 1924),mostly due to the fact that engines stayed on trains over multiple divisions and were assigned to multiple divisions during their lifetimes because of consolidation from local repar shops to large central facilities.I believe this was also during the time that the PRR was absorbing all the individual railroad names and eliminating corporate divisions like Lines West.Everything was lettered PENNSYLVANIA from then on.Diesels on the PRR were in type of engine groups,Penn Central & Conrail grouped engines into type groups also,(ie;1500s = GP15s, 1900s & 2800s = B23-7s, 3000s = GP40s,4000s = passenger power until the SD60s & 70s, 5000s = B36-7s & B40-8s, 6000s = all 6-axles until the SD60s & 70s, 7000s & 8000s = GP38s and 9000s = switchers).By the way,the Pennsy did normally use locomotive numbers from #1 to #9999 and also 5-digit numbers on equipment that might be disposed off in the near future to make room for new locomotives.Good luck and stay safe.

[Train Guy 3]

I remember seeing a picture of a UP Big Boy with an "X" before the engine number. It was like X4008. Was the X for like identifing the type of train it was, like an " extra "?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

On UP and SP, locomotives carried the train number in the numberboards; for example, the City of Los Angeles would show "103", regardless of the locomotive's actual number. Since most freight trains were operated as extras, "X3977" would be shown for a freight train pulled by locomotive 3977. Second sections would be shown as such: "2-101" for the second section of the City of San Francisco.
SP commute trains between San Francisco and San Jose were the last trains to operate under this practice and displayed train numbers into the mid-1970's.

[wabash1]

Under the old southern train numbers and engine numbers was differant, first class trains ran with a green flag on the engine and extra trains ran with white flags. locals were considered extras. there was at least 2 trains a day with the same train number but only 1 ran with a first class disignation. you had to be awake to see the engine number and compare it to your train orders. Each road had thier own way of numbering the southern had the gp38 starting in 5000 series and the sd40s in the 3000 series. Just remeber 1 thing nothing a railroad does makes any sense the NS keeps telling us that we dont see the big picture. to me the picture is out of focus, but then again i dont do crack either.............

[dekemd]

CSX numbers theirs by the type of engine.
CSX #1 to 599 are AC4400s
600 to 699 AC6000s
700 to 799 SD70MACS
800 to 812 SD80MACS
9000 and up are GE -9s
8000 and up are SD40-2s
7000 and up are GE -8s

When they order additional units it starts to get a little strange.

#5000 and up are AC4400s
#4700 and up are new SD70MACS

That's all I can remember right off the top of my head. Pretty much it's up the individual railroads.

Derrick

[adrianspeeder]

The PRR #9999 was a ge center cab switcher. Funny, the biggest number was the smallest diesel.

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

The AMT owns locomtoiveds numbered from 1320-1330, and hey pulled out an old F Series that is numbered 1331.

[dehusman]

Snip:
"Under the old southern train numbers and engine numbers was differant, first class trains ran with a green flag on the engine and extra trains ran with white flags. "

Regular trains (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc class) trains would have NO signals/flags. Leading sections of regular trains would display green signals/flags and the last section would not dispay any flags (3 sections of #101: 1st No 101 green flags, 2nd No 101 green flags, 3rd No 101 no flags), extras would display white flags.

Dave H.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The posting regarding PRR 9999 does show a fairly common thread among number systems. With the exception of CB&Q and BN, the high 9000 series tends to be a dumping ground for locomotives near the end of the line. CSX 9500 and up was used for the M/W locomotives (pumpkins) and the UP 9800-9900 series held a lot of ex-MP SD40-2's (no d/b) that didn't fit in elsewhere.

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

The posting regarding PRR 9999 does show a fairly common thread among number systems. With the exception of CB&Q and BN, the high 9000 series tends to be a dumping ground for locomotives near the end of the line. CSX 9500 and up was used for the M/W locomotives (pumpkins) and the UP 9800-9900 series held a lot of ex-MP SD40-2's (no d/b) that didn't fit in elsewhere.

trains all american diesel the B&O gp38-2 was put into mow service but found and now should be at the B&O museum in Baltimore.Article in trains awhile back.
stay safe
Joe