Wave At Train, Go To Jail

[K. P. Harrier]

Union Pacific is on the warpath in high cargo theft areas. Crooks are increasingly boarding trains adjacent highways that closely parallel the right-of-way. They then break into equipment, and handoff cargo to accomplices. Along comes an unsuspecting railfan with a friendly wave to the train crew, and sadly, special agents can misconstrue the fan to be one of the villains. The railroad is so sensitive to the theft issue that, in some areas, special agents say that the UP property begins at the EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT on narrow roadways, and order innocent motorists who happen to safely park out of traffic to move on, or worse yet, cite them. The railfan community truly has entered a radically different dimension, a very hostile one where traditional ground rules and American free movement no longer seem to apply.

[kevarc]

I would love to have them cite me. It would be interesting when it got to court to hear how they can justify that.

[JoeKoh]

Kp
sorry to hear about your experience.if you are not on their property they cant take you to court.We were at a park a few weeks back and the train action was heavy.Every crew opened the window and waved at us.We made a relief crews day when we stopped and took a picture and waved.there was a train truck collision down the line.I would think that any railroad would say hey can you help us keep a lookout?
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Easy. Just give the good old one-fingered salute to all UP movements.

[kwboehm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wbarker

Easy. Just give the good old one-fingered salute to all UP movements.

Sounds like a good idea after my encounter w/ the Unfriendly People last night. I have never gotten such an evil glare for waving at a locomotive...and I was patiently waiting at a grade crossing, so it wasn't even like I was anywhere I should not have been or doing anything I shouldn't have. Nevermind I intentionally stopped at the grade crossing to wait for the train (which was doing all of 5 mph is that and 2 blocks away) at 1230 in the morning, but that's not the point!!

[Anonymous]

Hey, not all of us are A-holes! I always wave at people, especially kids. If you flip me the bird rest assured that you will not be the first and definitely not the last. I get flipped off regularly at an intersection that I have to block briefly to line a switch. Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger. I work as quickly as I can until this happens. By law, I cannot block a a road crossing for more than 10 minutes. After I get the big f-u, I just wave and start my stop watch. Believe me, it takes every bit of 10 min. to get to that switch. I also make sure that they see me lolligagging. I get cussed at too. I win! I got to take 10min. out of their day because of one little finger.
Ken

[kwboehm]

I'm not saying you're all like that. In fact this was the first dirty look that I had received in a while. The last time being when they called me into the authorities (the agency I work) as suspicious activity when I was on a public county road (similar to K. P. Harrier's situation)...and again it was courtesy of Uncle Pete. I don't go flipping engineers off. Most times I could care less if you took 20 min. getting to that switch. I'm one of those mentioned in the "You might be a railfan if" thread that tries to get stopped by the train. In fact, those full 10 minute switching moves have allowed me to write a good few grade crossing violation tickets, and I love writing those. And I make it a point to give a friendly five-finger wave to the trains when I'm on duty, especially when I'm working overnights. And most times, when I can see in the window of the loco, I get the same response...I guess the crew just wasn't feelin' the love last night.

[dekemd]

Sounds like the UP police are on the fast track to a lawsuit.

Derrick

[mudchicken]

kwb:

Hope you get that ticket book out just as fast when those fine local citizens you are out to protect start '"rocking" the trains as they go by. Having rendered first aid to two locomotive engineers that were hit by rocks (one the size of a coffee cup saucer, knocked the engineer out cold), you had better get to them before I do!

mc

ps...railroad TRESPASSING is the number 1 cause of rail-related DEATHS in the US., many of those parallel roads encroach or knowingly are already on railroad (not public) property. Before you blow off the UP Police, try looking at the issue from their side of the issue...Could it possibly be that the UP crew was trying to see something on or near the track in the dark (Switch, signal, broken rail, etc./ radio transmission, instructions) that had them just a little pre-occupied??? Let's get all the facts before passing judgement.

[Jackflash]

Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger.

I've noticed this too, it seems females are the quickest to give you the
finger and blow their horns when caught at a crossing, wonder why that is?
jackflash

[dharmon]

And all this time I thought my middle finger was reserved for telling the lineman I was starting the number one engine........[;)]

Or expressing displeasure to the "other unnamed country's" fighter pilot that his airplane was a wee tooooo close...[8D]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jackflash

Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger.

I've noticed this too, it seems females are the quickest to give you the
finger and blow their horns when caught at a crossing, wonder why that is?
jackflash

[}:)] No, No gentlemen - you are misinterpreting the fairer sex - they are on the phone arranging a motel room and telling you what they would like to do with you! I have seen some of your pictures - trust me - you have these ladies all wrong! [}:)]

Mookie

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jackflash

Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger.

I've noticed this too, it seems females are the quickest to give you the
finger and blow their horns when caught at a crossing, wonder why that is?
jackflash

[}:)] No, No gentlemen - you are misinterpreting the fairer sex - they are on the phone arranging a motel room and telling you what they would like to do with you! I have seen some of your pictures - trust me - you have these ladies all wrong! [}:)]

Mookie

If that's the case, I must be one HOT dude[;)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jackflash

Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger.

I've noticed this too, it seems females are the quickest to give you the
finger and blow their horns when caught at a crossing, wonder why that is?
jackflash

[}:)] No, No gentlemen - you are misinterpreting the fairer sex - they are on the phone arranging a motel room and telling you what they would like to do with you! I have seen some of your pictures - trust me - you have these ladies all wrong! [}:)]

Mookie

If that's the case, I must be one HOT dude[;)]

[:X] I am sure you are - you are on the forum and they screen very closely!

Mz Moo

[kwboehm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

kwb:

Hope you get that ticket book out just as fast when those fine local citizens you are out to protect start '"rocking" the trains as they go by. Having rendered first aid to two locomotive engineers that were hit by rocks (one the size of a coffee cup saucer, knocked the engineer out cold), you had better get to them before I do!

mc

ps...railroad TRESPASSING is the number 1 cause of rail-related DEATHS in the US., many of those parallel roads encroach or knowingly are already on railroad (not public) property. Before you blow off the UP Police, try looking at the issue from their side of the issue...Could it possibly be that the UP crew was trying to see something on or near the track in the dark (Switch, signal, broken rail, etc./ radio transmission, instructions) that had them just a little pre-occupied??? Let's get all the facts before passing judgement.

Fortunately in my area I don't get a lot of trespassing complaints from the railroads. Once in a while we get a complaint from them about a train parked by a State Park where people decide to mess with anglecocks or something, and I've only received that complaint once in 5 years, and I got to play with the BNSF Police then...still have yet to see a UP Special Agent down my way except for grade crossing safety training held at our office. The UP usually just calls us (like when then reported me...see above)and has our agency respond. I was surprised that the didn't even come out when someone tried to carjack one of their dogcatchers, they only took the info from us over the phone, but I can get BNSF Special Agents at "minor" incidents, such as cars getting stuck at crossings, and I see them patrol the area quite a bit.

And about that above incident, there weren't any signals in the area, and like I said, I was on county gravel, maintained by the county and shown as a county road on all the county maps. I just remember hearing him call us in on the scanner, and a short time later our dispatcher giving the call to one of our deputies. We weren't in the area when he got there cuz we were still chasing the train...had six of those flag units fresh out of the shops.

[Anonymous]

Jeez, all these stupid rules take the fun out of everything. Whenever I'm out train watching a always wave to the crew.

[ironhorseman]

Reading all this I'm reminded of the words of a great figure in American Cartooniture when Homer Simpson has so lazily said so many times: "Yeah, but what are you gonna do?"

Seriously:
1.) Probable cause: this keyword is vital. What probable cause does a police officer or railway agent have to arrest you, the railfan, that waves?
2.) What's so criminal about waving?
3.) What's the charge?
4.) Where's the evidence?

If anyone is falsely arrested the officer is setting him/herself up to be sued. If the railway presses charges on the person that did not commit a crime and it goes to court the railway would lose big time and is open to a lawsuit.

I don't see how a railroad would risk it's repution, dollars, or time in court on pressing false charges. Even if charges are dropped that person's time has been taken, public embarassment has been inccurred, and that person has been falsely accussed when they had no premeditation, planning, or cause in their mind to commit the act.

[brilondon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Hey, not all of us are A-holes! I always wave at people, especially kids. If you flip me the bird rest assured that you will not be the first and definitely not the last. I get flipped off regularly at an intersection that I have to block briefly to line a switch. Alot of women on their cell phones are partial to the finger. I work as quickly as I can until this happens. By law, I cannot block a a road crossing for more than 10 minutes. After I get the big f-u, I just wave and start my stop watch. Believe me, it takes every bit of 10 min. to get to that switch. I also make sure that they see me lolligagging. I get cussed at too. I win! I got to take 10min. out of their day because of one little finger.
Ken

You have made my day. You can always take your 10 minutes to give those drivers who don't realize what you have to do. Chances are that if the railway was not blocking them they would just take out their frustrations on someone else who was holding them up, like you know a car that was doing the speed limit and in their lane and stopping for a red light.

[JoeKoh]

yeah I was coming back to a photospot today a guy passed me and another guy ahead of me approaching a railcrossing on a slight hill.Good thing there was mow equipment there being loaded onto flatcars we might have needed it.Thank God we did not.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Right on, Brilondon
Ken

[heavyd]

I have loved trains my whole life! I can't imagine how many engineers I have waved to. Some have waved back, some didn't. I had a brief chance to live my dream of working on the railroad! For a while I was the one being waved at, and I would love to wave back. It is like a customary thing to do or something, I don't know. But my advise to anyone is if you like to watch trains just stand there and enjoy! Don't wave because more often that you think one of the crew members think you are an idiot for watching their train go by. They don't understand that what they do for a living is interesting and encourages a multi-million dollar a year hobby industry! I know this because I was riding with them! We would pass railfans all the time and most times someone would call the railfan a loser or idiot or something like that! One time I waved to a railfan I then turned to face my conductor instructor and he gave a look as if to say, "what the *&^% are you waving for?" I worked in Canada and we never had to worry about people as possible suspects! They never told us to report anyone, or issued any bulletins about stuff. I really don't know how severe they were when it came charging railfans with possible trespassing and that sort of thing.

[Anonymous]

In my case, engeneers wave at me first. So i wave back. It's just a way of saying "Hi there! How are you doing today?". It's not a way of saying "When you can't see me i'm gonna thow a thick log under your train and derail it"

[PNWRMNM]

All,

UP claim that their property begins at the edge of the road is very likely true in many loctions. Between Omaha and SLC their R?W is 400' wide and regardless of width many county roads and old state highways managed to get located on a slice of railroad right of way. Unless you have a valuation map, you would be wise not to argue.

Mac

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNWRMNM

All,

UP claim that their property begins at the edge of the road is very likely true in many loctions. Between Omaha and SLC their R?W is 400' wide and regardless of width many county roads and old state highways managed to get located on a slice of railroad right of way. Unless you have a valuation map, you would be wise not to argue.

Mac

Some of you may remember when we talked about a 100 foot rule ARR is enforcing around is property. Some thought is was way too much. Well, how about 400 feet. But what if there is a road parallel to track 200 feet away? Are the people using the road tresspassers? Some rules are meant to be broken, but dont get me wrong on this one.

[wabash1]

the law says you are not to block a crossing for more than 10 min? the thing is you didnt fini***he statement. and i dont know it word for word but if you are out in the country it dont really apply. it is mostly for heavy traffic area crossings and not blocked unnessarly. i block crossings on a regular basis and usually more than 45 min at a time. I once had a crossing block at 15 min in the winter and it was cold. trying to get the air up on the rear the dispatcher called and ask do i have a county road blocked my reply was i am 10,250 ft long i have several of them blocked. he said i have a school bus stopped , i told him i have 10 pounds yet to get on the rear for the set and release but its taking awhile because of the tempature. he said ok. then within a minute he said i haft to cut the crossing. I ask him which one? he says the one you have blocked. I told him i have a set and release to do then i can pull his reply In his snippy way was cut the crossing. I told him did he have a relief crew called for us? he ask why, i said if i haft to cut this crossing everytime someone calls we will never get out of here, and the time it takes for the conductor to go back and forth is not helping either. He proceeded to say its your problem cut the crossing. so we did . we did not haft to by the time the conductor got there the air test was done. and we found the empty school bus. and the sheriff car . all they ask was how long was we going to be there the conductor told them 45 more min after we cut the crossing to let you out. orders from the dispatcher that you wanted this. the reply from the sharriff was we wanted to know when you was leaving not to cut it. after another hour we was able to leave. but the dispatcher was mad. that we on perpose caused this delay. ( he was a know it all and really didnt know anything) it took a division road forman to exsplaine what it takes to air up that much train in 15deg temps.

[PNWRMNM]

Dear Alaska,

If the road is a public road, and it is located on the railroad's right of way, you may use the road all you want. Once you are off the road on the railroad side, however, you are on railroad property and are a trespasser. You do not have to be on the track, just on the property. If I camp out on your front yard I am a trespasser. Same principle.

The width of right of way is hignly variable. The 400 foot I referd to us UP original line right of way. If they relocated or built a new line may have had to buy land. May be 100 foot wide, 200 foot wide, 400 foot wide. Without a valuation map you do not know.

Mac

[eastcoast]

All of your comments here are interesting. May I point out that Tespassing has become a very serious issue for many corporations due to the security issues they face.I am such a person to agree with UP and the other railroads by protecting their assets. When you are pulled over for whatever reason and are violating space, an assets protector,whomever it may be, has the right and the duty to move you along. When,in the case you are cited,you do not heed warning,you are obstructing authority and this will hold up in court. Terrorism and crime have peaked over the last decade and this costs corporations billions of OUR money,because ultimately,we are the ones who pay for damages and lost property. I have a job to protect a very high profile area and do not hesitate to carry out my orders to which I am sworn to protect. Yours and my taxes go up ,and the price of goods go up when things are destroyed or go stolen.
If you are one who wants to fight the system that was put in place to protect you, I call that stupid and toleration is ZERO against you. There is a solution, when and if you are approached, kindly smile and show the person your hands in a gesture of no harm. Then do as told. WE ARE SERIOUS.
ken_ecr

[Anonymous]

I can understand railroads keeping an eye on their right of way. A few months ago we had some #$%^$&%# people steal about 20+ ties from our right of way. Those big chunks of wood aint cheap. Our super visor and some track workers followed tire tracks to a near by storage building and found the ties. Of cource they got away with it because the cops said we couldn't they stole them from us, so they got abunch of ties , and costed the company some dough. I block a major 4 lane highway and get my share of looks and horn blowing, but I return the ol have a peace sign when I receive it.
I got the last laugh this one hot dry summer day. We shove up 9 cars across the highway to the CSX interchange, tied some hand brakes, and proceeded down to the highway to make the cut. By then everyone is pissed and blowing their horn. We make the cut, I get up , ride to the edge of the road and stop. My engineer always gets down and turns the air to save me a walk . So once he told me to bust it, I grabbed the air hose and pointed it at the ground and blew dirt, rocks, and other debis all over this
@$#%^!'s car who just couldn't stop blowing his horn. Or you can always kill em with kindness. Smiling and waving at someone who is pissed at you just pisses em off even more.

[K. P. Harrier]

So, what does the Forum readership think they will individually do about this precarious issue?

[JoeKoh]

KP
Stop Look Listen and Live take pictures leave footprints and if I see something happening I will call the cops and the railroad(Ihave both CSX and NS numbers in my vehicles)
stay safe
Joe