Where's the Steepest Grade?

[zgardner18]

Guys,

I just bought the Charles Smiley Video of the Soldier Summit and I noticed that off of Helper is a spur that has a 3% grade.  I want to call it the Sunnyside Spur but can't remember.  None the less Rio Grande used it do carry cars filled with Nuclear filled dirt, and I'm sure that UP still continues the order. 

Anyway that is the steepist grade that I know of, so is it the steepest grade or is there another one that you guys know of.  Narrow gauge doesn't count.  I want one that modern equipment travels on.

[Anonymous]

Saluda Grade, Polk County, North Carolina

"The steepest, standard gauge, mainline railway grade in the U.S."

4.7%

Norfolk Southern stopped service December 2001 

Coordinates for Google Earth:

35 13 29.9N 82 20 49.46W 

 Some pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32267466@N00/sets/72157594250387417/

[Modelcar]

 

....Hello BRF:

Haven't seen you on the forums for a long time....I see your mention of the saluda 4.7 grade....Aren't some short sections up to 5.1% in grade....

 Could you give us an update on what might be the status of Saluda.....How about that massive slide under the track down grade from Saluda that occurred perhaps at least a year ago....Has it been repaired....Do we hear any rumble of opening the route in the future....

Thanks in advance in any update....

[Modelcar]

 

....zgardner18:

 3% grades can be found in most parts of the country that have any hills at all...That is steep for a railroad but there sure are many locations with up to 3% grades.  Perhaps most remaining now will be on branch lines.  I know the S&C of the former B&O {now CSX}, in Pennsylvania, my home area has a 3% grade.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

I just bought the Charles Smiley Video of the Soldier Summit and I noticed that off of Helper is a spur that has a 3% grade.  I want to call it the Sunnyside Spur but can't remember.  None the less Rio Grande used it do carry cars filled with Nuclear filled dirt, and I'm sure that UP still continues the order. 

Anyway that is the steepist grade that I know of, so is it the steepest grade or is there another one that you guys know of.  Narrow gauge doesn't count.  I want one that modern equipment travels on.

The Sunnyside Branch (not Spur) has 2.5 miles of 3.5% maximum grade at its westernmost end.  The branch is in service about to milepost 13 to serve the East Carbon Development Corporation landfill at East Carbon, which is well short of the beginning of the 3.5% grade.  The ECDC landfill is not permitted for nuclear waste of any type and handles such waste as municipal waste and sludge and nonhazardous industrial waste, including asbestos.  Roughly 70% of the waste handled is municipal trash.  See:

http://www.chwmeg.org/asp/search/detail.asp?ID=348 

There are quite a number of 3% main line grades in service in North America including on the BNSF Chicago to Los Angeles main line at Cajon Pass.  A main line grade, in service, of 3.5% or 4% is exceptional.

S. Hadid 

[timz]

There are quite a number of 3% main line grades in service in North America including on the BNSF Chicago to Los Angeles main line at Cajon Pass.

Cajon South Track, Raton, Glorieta -- any others in service? We can't call Siskiyou a main line any more, can we?

We still don't know if the questioner is asking about main lines only, or line-haul railroads only. He's probably not interested in light-rail grades or subways?

[zgardner18]

Guys,

I just bought the Charles Smiley Video of the Soldier Summit and I noticed that off of Helper is a spur that has a 3% grade.  I want to call it the Sunnyside Spur but can't remember.  None the less Rio Grande used it do carry cars filled with Nuclear filled dirt, and I'm sure that UP still continues the order. 

Anyway that is the steepist grade that I know of, so is it the steepest grade or is there another one that you guys know of.  Narrow gauge doesn't count.  I want one that modern equipment travels on.

The Sunnyside Branch (not Spur) has 2.5 miles of 3.5% maximum grade at its westernmost end.  The branch is in service about to milepost 13 to serve the East Carbon Development Corporation landfill at East Carbon, which is well short of the beginning of the 3.5% grade.  The ECDC landfill is not permitted for nuclear waste of any type and handles such waste as municipal waste and sludge and nonhazardous industrial waste, including asbestos.  Roughly 70% of the waste handled is municipal trash.  See:

http://www.chwmeg.org/asp/search/detail.asp?ID=348 

There are quite a number of 3% main line grades in service in North America including on the BNSF Chicago to Los Angeles main line at Cajon Pass.  A main line grade, in service, of 3.5% or 4% is exceptional.

S. Hadid 

 

Let me put in my disclamer: 

 I am only telling what the video said when it only talked about a 3% grade.  Never was it mentioned another .5%.  Also the video talked about the nuclear filled dirt.  I guess I should have known not to completely trust the narrator on his words when he spoke of a passing BNSF train with a SD60M on the point and called it a SD70Mac.  Clearly anyone knows that a BN Green with white cheeks was never a paint job on a Mac.

Sorry, I totally forgot that Cajon Pass has a 3.5% on the northbound tracks, and I railfan there all the time.

The question is geared towards any tracks in North America that in NOT Narrow Gauge (I know that Narrow Gauge grades can get up to 6+.  I think the Yosemite RR. has a 9%), Lite Rails, or Subways.

[Cheviot Hill]

This doesn't really pertain to current operation but Madison Hill  in southern Indiana has a grade of 5.89% and it's a straight shot 7,012 ft up the hill. Was last used in the mid to late 80's. There was a special move that went down the hill for the power plant down below. The tracks are still there but are overgrown with vegetation.

If you want to know more about it here is a link http://hometown.aol.com/ma393/railroad/index.htm

 

 

[beaulieu]

Not a mainline grade, but the Boeing Spur at Renton, WA is about a 7 percent grade, and the loads go uphill.

[timz]

the Boeing Spur at Renton, WA is about a 7 percent grade, and the loads go uphill.

 You mean Everett, right? When they built that Trains said it was 5.6%. But yeah, nobody's come up with anything steeper than that, and probably no one's going to.

 

Cajon Pass has a 3.5% on the northbound tracks

3.0% you mean, on the south track, or whatever they call it now.

[Anonymous]

There are quite a number of 3% main line grades in service in North America including on the BNSF Chicago to Los Angeles main line at Cajon Pass.

Cajon South Track, Raton, Glorieta -- any others in service? We can't call Siskiyou a main line any more, can we?

We still don't know if the questioner is asking about main lines only, or line-haul railroads only. He's probably not interested in light-rail grades or subways?

You inferred what I was thinking -- of the Siskiyou -- when I made that post.  And I am not sure what exists in Mexico in the 3.0% or steeper regime except that steep main line grades seem to abound there, and given the growing integration of the Mexican systems with U.S. railroads I don't think we can continue to ignore the world beyond the southern border of the U.S.

I think if you would call the Siskiyou Line a main line two decades past in 1986, under SP, then I think you would have to call it a main line now, as the only major operational difference is it's operated by a Class III carrier instead of a Class I carrier.  The traffic patterns are virtually the same with the exception that the long WCEUMs, or UP's equivalent thereof, no longer operate via the Siskiyou.  But as I recall those were sporadic.

There are still a few 3.0% or steeper branch lines, but a lot less than there were 20 years ago.

S. Hadid 

[oskar]

There was a big news thing in trains in 2005 about this I belive somewhere in Virginia was currently the highest. Its been awhile since I seen it.

 But Saluda is the highest in the US at 4.7. I was there recently on a Old Fort trip and even if there is no trains there (in differ of my last trip there in 99) it is still an amazing site to see. If your ever in that area you might want to stop there.

 

 

kevin

[zgardner18]

Cajon Pass has a 3.5% on the northbound tracks

3.0% you mean, on the south track, or whatever they call it now.

 Yeah, that is what I meant.

[Tharmeni]

Cheviot Hill points out the steep Madison Hill grade near Madison, Indiana, and it is indeed spectacular.  I want to add a warning to anyone who plans to hike it.  I did so in 2002 and during the summer there are many snakes along the right of way (the heat generated by what little ballast remains apparently attracks them).  We ran into at least five copperheads during our hike.  So if you plan to hike the right of way, be forewarned.  I wouldn't do it again! 

[martin.knoepfel]

what about the Cass Scenic Railroad? Isn't it steeper than Saluda? Standard gauge, AFAIK, and tourist-trains only. It used to be a log-hauler.

[Anonymous]

After seeing those photos. I am very sad. That was a very good NS line too.

[timz]

if you would call the Siskiyou Line a main line two decades past in 1986, under SP ...

That's a question, all right-- what exactly constitutes a "main line". FWIW the SP timetable started calling it the Siskiyou Branch well before 1986.

[espeefoamer]

Saluda Grade, Polk County, North Carolina

"The steepest, standard gauge, mainline railway grade in the U.S."

4.7%

Norfolk Southern stopped service December 2001 

Coordinates for Google Earth:

35 13 29.9N 82 20 49.46W 

 Some pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32267466@N00/sets/72157594250387417/

Did you ever get your truck out of that predicament?

[ericsp]

if you would call the Siskiyou Line a main line two decades past in 1986, under SP ...

That's a question, all right-- what exactly constitutes a "main line". FWIW the SP timetable started calling it the Siskiyou Branch well before 1986.

The 1989 SP timetable I have calls it the Siskiyou Line.

[enr2099]

There was a railroad on Vancouver Island, the Victoria and Sidney Railway that had a ruling grade of 7%. The V&S Rwy, which became part of the Great Northern was shut down in 1919. West Saanich Road follows the V&S grade up the 7% grade through Royal Oak. While the rubber tired vehicles have no problem on the hill, I remember hearing many stories of passengers on the northbound trains being able to walk up the hill and have a drink at the Royal Oak Hotel while the train struggled up the hill.

In fact this photo from the BC archives shows a V&S southbound train at the bottom of that hill. The track follows that road up the hill.

 

 

With the V&S gone by 1919, I wouldn't count it as one of the steepest grades.

[anb740]

Here's a few more pics of Saluda that I took back in May. Even with no trains, it's still an impressive sight!

 http://anb740.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=12904

[Lost World]

what about the Cass Scenic Railroad? Isn't it steeper than Saluda? Standard gauge, AFAIK, and tourist-trains only. It used to be a log-hauler.

Max grade on the Cass Scenic Railroad is just above the second switchback--11%.  Steep enough to stall anything but a mountain goat or a geared steam locomotive.  Granted, the empties always went uphill when it was a logging railroad, but it's still pretty damn steep.  Cass doesn't really fit into the argument for steepest grade, however, due to the fact that the companies that ran it (West Virginia Pulp & Paper, Greenbrier, Cheat & Elk Railroad; later the Mower Lumber Company) were not Class I railroads, although GC&E moved a considerable amount of freight, not just lumber, over this grade during the heyday of the 1920's.  A fair portion of GC&E's trackage was later absorbed by the Western Maryland, but never this portion of their line, which was known as the Cass Hill. 

[Modelcar]

.....anb 740:

Those are good pictures of the Saluda area taken since rail operations have ceased.

We last stopped there in March of '02 on way back from Florida.  The rails sure have rusted since that time we had our last chance to look around there.

I keep wondering if the area of the massive ground slide away from the tracks and the same location the wondering pickup truck drove down the track without knowing of that washout....Wondering if that washout has been repaired....?

We had stopped there several years in a row right before that to {again in the spring on trip north from Fl.}, try to catch some action on the rails but never got lucky to see any.  Waited up to 4 hrs trying to catch a train.  At least had a good lunch in the little town and by chance got to talk to the gentleman in Pace general store....