next USA industry to be killed off

[jsanchez]

I was reading the China People's Daily and came across the article below, on the bottom it mentions they plan to enter the US market, I can see the plant closing and job lay offs already......Is anyone at home in the White House and Congress.....

Last updated at: (Beijing Time) Friday, October 24, 2003
China exports railway wagons to Brazil for first time
A ship carrying 124 railway wagons left Shanghai for Brazil on Thursday, marking China's first such exports to South America.


Zhao Xiaogang, general manager of China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corporation, the exporter, said a total of 900 wagons, worth 33 million US dollars, would be exported to Brazil by next March for the transportation of iron ore.

The wagons were manufactured by the Hunan Zhuzhou Rolling Stock Plant, a subsidiary of the corporation, in line with US standards,said Zhao. He hoped the shipment would lay a sound foundation for future efforts to the US and European markets

[mudchicken]

They have already been trying to sell fasteners (Yangtse Brand- Track bolts, spikes, clips, etc. ) in the US for the past 10 years. Not totally successfull there...

[Anonymous]

The fault does not lie with China, Japan, Korea or any other nation that dumps their products here, the fault lies strictly in Washington D.C. This idiotic belief our leaders have in, what they call, free trade does not exist in any other country. They open our markets to all comers while accepting imports of American goods to be severely restricted by these same countries What is needed is fair trade, you put obstacles in the way of my goods, then beleve me, I shall do the same to you. Look at Britain, all of their shipyards gone so that the latest Queen, The new Queen Mary, had to be built in France. This could happen to us if we keep losing our heavy industry. As it stands, we have hardly a steel mill left. Something has to change.

[mudchicken]

....or if you behave like Minnesota and drive industry away with dumb state rules. (La Junta, CO thanks MN for all those steady jobs brought here, and CA too!)

[Anonymous]

Its our own fault!
U.S. Manufacturing has been sent to Mexico and China for the past 10 years.
What did we VOTERS do about it?
Nothing...
Now all the I.T. jobs are going to India and Malaysia so that Corporations can pay MUCH lower salaries and NO BENIFITS.
Mexican Trucks are now allowed into the U.S. and U.S. truckers are losing jobs because the Mexicans charge half of what a U.S. trucker does.
AMERICAN corporations love all of this it saves them money and increase profits and stock price.
You ask if the White House is sleeping?
NOPE!
They are part of the problem.
The Bushes own Mexican Oil Refineries and Environmental Clean Up companies in whole or in partnership.
Did you know that whenever there is an Oil spill in Mexican Coastal waters, the Mexican Government automatically gives the cleanup contract to Bushes Environmental Clean Up company?
Did you know that any "saved" oil from the spill is sent to the Mexican Refinery the Bushes own part of in Mexico?
Oh yeah, and the Mexican Truck Drivers who Bush and old man Bush fought so hard to get into the United States...guess what they will be hauling?
Oil and Gasoline! For Bushes Oil Refinery!!!!
Old man Bush has been in bed with Mexican Government Officials and his son continues the legacy.
In addition, the Republicans are traditionally PRO-Corporation...they will do anything to help U.S. corps make money and shed EXPENSIVE U.S. jobs.
Now for the BAD NEWS...go to ANY stock forum and bring up these issues...
The AMERICANS there who are "investors" will FLAME you in the name of free trade and capitalism.
Why? Because these people are "secure" enough financially and occupationally to not give a damn about jobs...only increased corporate profits..which these tactics allow.
You will get no sympathy from 50% of U.S. citizens and 99% of people on the stock investment forums.
SAD....greedy fellow americans.
In addition, as you have probably heard the Republicans in this White house tried to get our overtime hours increased, have allowed corporations to not kep retirement plan health and prescription drug plans as promised.
Amazingly, it was that boob Bill Clinton who vetoed the Mexican Truck bill, Overtime Hours increase, etc etc.
I voted for Bush and have been a Republican since I was old enough to vote...UNTIL earlier this year.
i will now vote 100% Democrat.....
Why? Becuase the Republicans are pro Corporation and Anti-labor.
We are the only country who is more interested in spending and sending money, jobs, and aid to OTHER countrys.
In the meantime, these other countries do all they can to employ their own citizens.
This will continue until we voters make jobs a campaign issue.

[vsmith]

Wow, I couldnt have said it any better,

Bush and his croonies are killing this country in the name of greed and corporate nepostism and there using the Iraq war to deflect attention from there own home policy failures, and I felt the only reason we invaded Iraq was so that Bush's croonies could get access to the oil fields. They knew there were no WMD's there and they punished anyone who didnt reinforce the lie they were feeding us. Notice that Afganistan is virtually ignored by the administration now, and that there is very little effort being put forth to find Osama-bin-Laden. The Bush administration wants you to believe that Sadam was piloting those planes on 9-11. I only hope enough people see thru this BS by 2004 to throw the bum out.

I now this has nothing to do with trains but I'm always amazed at how much disatisfaction with our current administration seems to be just under to surface out there.

[wabash1]

the biggest line of bull ive ever heard. the first thing way back in 1980 the fasteners that was from china was taken off all class 8 trucks built by freight liner and peterbilt and kenworth they didnt met the requirments for what they was designed for and since not ever been used again.

and then again all the republican bashing . the truth lies in the voting. when NAFTA passed the democrates was the majority in house and congress. and many democrates voted this in. go back and see how your state voted and then start there on the clean up.

[Anonymous]

ney1815

I must teach a bit about mexican trucks. I have 16 years in the Trucking industry. Mexico are allowed to get goods bound for the USA up to the border. There it is transloaded onto dray trucks to go across the border by licensed companys who import/export goods on both sides. THen goods are loaded after clearence onto us trucks for delivery to the USA.

As of this year a limited amount of Mexican Carriers are aloowed to deliver to the usa outside the restricted zone. In a few years Mexico will be aloowed to deliver anywhere in the US and possibly Cananda as well.

Note that Canada truckers been moving goods to all points in the usa for years.

There are some American COmpanies aloowed to deliver into Mexico such as Mexico City.

The mexican truck bill as you called it was vetoed because of Cliton's impression that thier trucks are 40 years old and unsafe. There are a few first class mexican carriers with brand new freightliners ready to deliver.

I do not care for the difficulties the Government imposed on us. However, it comes down to economics. A mexican worker can live well for 6 dollars an hour compared to the American worker who needs 16 dollars an hour and expensive material to produce.

And the Chinese market is even cheaper. That will change in the future once China establishes a way of life equal to our nation across thier country.

This has been a hot button thread and I felt I had to submit my two cents. Good Luck and enjoy your trains.

[Modelcar]

....So after reading several posts of the problems of heavy manfacturing jobs, etc., leaving our country and it will only accelerate as time passes if our concept and philosophy of governing isn't changed...Lets everyone who believes that this thinking needs to change....talk up the problem to everyone one can and try to get the vote going in the direction that may make the needed changes next year. This job loss situation is really getting to the critical point and needs action....Soon..!!

[Anonymous]

China and quality are two words that DO NOT belong in the same sentance. There is nothing quality about a product made in China. None that I have seen anyway. We as Americans are going to have to get out of the "Wal-Mart mentality" just because what they sell is cheap. It may be cheap now but it won't last long. If these rail wagons are of the same quality of their other junk then after a few years other countries should wise up and stop buying them. It's to bad we Americans can't seem to wise up and boot their sorry a ** crap all the way back to China. Some of you will remember my post in another thread about chinese crap. It may be cheap now but in a little while you have to replace it because it won't work. Then how cheap is it to have to buy it again? And again? And again? All the while American workers are losing their jobs right and left. Look at the labels and don't buy anything made in crapland. You are better off in the long run to pay more now and buy something quality, yes it may cost more now but it will last whereas anything made in China won't last long. And I have six clocks all made in China -- none of them work. I bought one recently it works but was broken before I even took it out of the package. So out of 7 clocks only 1 works and it looses about 15 minutes a day even winding it twice a day. Keep American jobs in American, don't buy Chinese crap.

As far as their rail wagons are concerned, let them carry all the Chinese crap back to China and stay there.

[Anonymous]

All you left-wing liberal extremists, especially those of you in the Peoples Republic of California, get off the Bush bashing. The mainstream liberals, mostly democrats, are the ones responsible for the mess we're in. Idiotic regulations out the wazoo in the name of protecting the earth, idiotic laws to protect us from ourselves and a lot of our corporate/industrial problems can be summed up in one word: UNIONS! Unions can decree how much work can be done & a what price. It's stupid that if an UAW worker shows up too drunk or drugged up to work, the auto manufacturers have to provide a place for them to sleep it off; at FULL PAY & benifits. Unions fought railroads for years over eliminating the cabooses simply to save union jobs. If a company can't make a profit, they either go out of business or out of the country.

[Modelcar]

...I won't get into the political bashing but lets all give the subject some serious thought the next Presidental election and vote to somehow restore our manufacturing might back to our great country. It is not ever going to be as it once was but surely we can improve on what's happening in our country now.

[rich747us]

This is unfortunate! When are we gonna realize that we're only shooting ourselves in the foot by supporting the commies?![:(!] I'm originally from western New York State where Eastman Kodak has is headquarterd in Rochester. They recently made the decision to stop all their stateside production and move all the manufacturing jobs to the pinkos in China! A wonderful idea! Let's support commies over there, while our own economy goes into shock!

[Bikerdad]

Hmmmmm....

Economic ignorance is always annoying, and its being shown here in spades. The biggest reason we're "losing" jobs in the manufacturing sector?

Because we're getting more efficient!!! Yup. From 1997 to 2002, the United States lost 2.3 million manufacturing jobs. Eek!! Did they all go to Mexico, Japan, or China? Nope. During the same period, China lost 16+ million manufacturing jobs.

If you want to see an increase in the employment in the manufacturing sector here, the single best thing to do is to roll back the regulatory state. How many of you cried when the American tanning industry was utterly destroyed by regulations? Have you ever wondered why there's so much Italian leather? Italy ain't got that many cows! Where's all the American leather? gone... the cattle are slaughtered, then their hides are shipped abroad for processing because the NIMBYs and environmentalists don't like tanning.

Yes, there should be some reciprocity on free trade, which certainly doesn't exist with China. And yes, there should also be some connection between access to American markets and respect for American values. But to blame the Bush Administration for the natural outcome of economic markets influenced by 30+ years of boneheaded legislation from the Left AND shortsighted policies on the Right is foolish. If you want to blame the Bush Admin for continuing some of those policies (given their manifest failure), that I can understand.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by keoni48

All you left-wing liberal extremists, especially those of you in the Peoples Republic of California, get off the Bush bashing. The mainstream liberals, mostly democrats, are the ones responsible for the mess we're in. Idiotic regulations out the wazoo in the name of protecting the earth, idiotic laws to protect us from ourselves and a lot of our corporate/industrial problems can be summed up in one word: UNIONS! Unions can decree how much work can be done & a what price. It's stupid that if an UAW worker shows up too drunk or drugged up to work, the auto manufacturers have to provide a place for them to sleep it off; at FULL PAY & benifits. Unions fought railroads for years over eliminating the cabooses simply to save union jobs. If a company can't make a profit, they either go out of business or out of the country.

Keoni, you are talking out of your butt! The problem is not Unions. If it wasn't for Unions the prevailing wages around the country would be lower. Thank God for Unions. You site one instance of the UAW situation, which, I am not too sure that I believe that is contractual. That is all you have! You don't know what you are talking about. Period! I will give you the oppertunity to come to a Union meeting with me and spout your rhetoric. I dare you! You would get your rear end kicked! You obviousely are not a rail, so shut up about cabooses. Until you have walked a mile in our shoes, keep your opinion to yourself. Now run along back to your little sissy job and leave the real work to the real men! We pay Union dues and are proud!
Ken

[Mookie]

Gentlemen: As much as I enjoy the rhetoric, please be careful - I don't want to see the forum get into WW3 again and get shut down. This could be an interesting, informative and maybe even fun topic, just use caution, please .....

Mookie

[Anonymous]

Sorry Mook, this guy hit a nerve. I was in a discussion the other day with a guy about the Unions. He obviousely had no idea what the Union was really about and yet was badmouthing something that many people feel strongly about, and something that he knew nothing about. My feelings are that if you choose not to be Union, fine. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. This jerk on this thread obviousely hates the Union. Fine! When he posts comments like he did, he will get a response from me. This clown has no idea that many of the laws and benefits that he enjoys at his job were implemented because of the Unions fight many years ago. Basically, treat your employees right and odds are that they won't want to organize, treat them poorly or pay them an unfair wage and organization is an option. Wal-Mart is a good example. They pay dirt and have pockets deeper than an artesian well. They work a majority of their workforce just under 40hrs to avoid heath benefits. Keoni started the banter with calling us "left wing liberal extremists." I will return fire with calling Keoni an idiot and emploring him to say his crap face to face with a Union member (myself included). Like I said.....Keoni, go back to your little girl job and leave the real work to organized labor. Also, quality is higher in a Union shop. We get paid better, have less turnover, and take more pride in our work. How can you produce a quality product when you pay lousy and have a high turnover always training new employees?
Ken

[Anonymous]

To VSMITH, JHHTRAINSPLAINS............I agree 100%. Buy American as much as possible. Your livelyhood depends on it. If Bush is so great, why is unemployment so high? Oh, yeah, I know the answer....He is just cleaning up the mess that the Democrats have made. Yep, the same old excuse used every time the economy goes into the crapper when a Republican goes into office. I guess that it is just a big coincidence. Yeah right! Vote Bush, Guns, War and Apple pie. Dubya has been beating the war drum to death, and as annother poster said, what about Bin Laden? Yeah George, you are fumbling the ball just like daddy, your daughters are pot heads (so much for family morals), and our men are getting killed every day as Bin Laden runs free, and we the people are coughing up $86B for more war and glory while unemployment stays at unhealthy levels at home. I suppose that the Democrats caused this too. And by the way Keoni.......UNION YES!
Ken

[dekemd]

It wasn't just Bu***hat wants to spend the $86B. Both houses of congress voted to spend it. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans in this mess. The elder Bush started the process on NAFTA and Clinton signed it into law. The democrats bash republicans for being pro business but they pushed for free trade agreements when Clinton was in office. The economy is in the toilet because it was never really that good to start with. Every other day some company comes out and restates earnings for the past several years. Look at Enron for example. In the mid nineties, they were a strong company and looked great. In reality it only look good because they were hiding their true accounting numbers.

What this country really needs is a law banning political parties. No more democrats or republicans or anybody else. Elected officials should do what is best for the country and not what will make his/her party look good. They also need to get rid of career politicians. A congressman or woman whose been in congress for 15 years making well over $100,000 a year has no clue what it's like to actually have to work for a living. I'm afraid that until there is a drastic change in politics, things are only going to get worse no matter whether its a democrat or republican president.

Derrick

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd

It wasn't just Bu***hat wants to spend the $86B. Both houses of congress voted to spend it. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans in this mess. The elder Bush started the process on NAFTA and Clinton signed it into law. The democrats bash republicans for being pro business but they pushed for free trade agreements when Clinton was in office. The economy is in the toilet because it was never really that good to start with. Every other day some company comes out and restates earnings for the past several years. Look at Enron for example. In the mid nineties, they were a strong company and looked great. In reality it only look good because they were hiding their true accounting numbers.

What this country really needs is a law banning political parties. No more democrats or republicans or anybody else. Elected officials should do what is best for the country and not what will make his/her party look good. They also need to get rid of career politicians. A congressman or woman whose been in congress for 15 years making well over $100,000 a year has no clue what it's like to actually have to work for a living. I'm afraid that until there is a drastic change in politics, things are only going to get worse no matter whether its a democrat or republican president.

Derrick

Ok - let's work on this. We have a senator from Omaha that has made a career out of being in our legislature (we the only unicameral in the nation - ergo no parties - yeah right!)

We have voted on term-limits no less than 4 times and 4 times it has been voted in - and the courts have turned it back! So how do we get Professional Politicians out of office - I can't vote him out - I live in Lincoln!

Mook

[dharmon]

I thought November was open season on incumbants? No bag limit but it's only a one day hunt. They do seem to fund alot of legislation to protect their natural breeding grounds though.

[:D] Not very good eatin though....alotta pork-like fat on them. But nuthin beats coming home with a few of them strapped to the roof and hood. [:D].

[dharmon]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

(we the only unicameral in the nation - ergo no parties - yeah right!)


Mook