Is Machiavellianism THE Way to Land a RXR Job?

[croteaudd]

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527 A.D.) wrote of the political power of APPEARING good and wonderful to the masses in contrast to how one actually might be. (See The Prince, chapter 18) The underlying APPEARANCE concept holds true even with obtaining railroad employment. What one APPEARS to be can work wonders for one, or ruin prospects and close doors to opportunities. Savvy job hopefuls meticulously do their HOMEWORK super well, and way BEFORE an interview. Thus, they shrewdly come to know EVERYTHING that is important to railroad job interviewers, and what turnoffs to avoid. They are then able to successfully (and truthfully) articulate to railroad interviewers exactly what the railroad interviewers want to hear, and APPEAR very desirable, wonderful, and dazzling to them. Making sure one APPEARS favorably to a railroad IS everything in landing a railroad job.

[croteaudd]

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527 A.D.) wrote of the political power of APPEARING good and wonderful to the masses in contrast to how one actually might be. (See The Prince, chapter 18) The underlying APPEARANCE concept holds true even with obtaining railroad employment. What one APPEARS to be can work wonders for one, or ruin prospects and close doors to opportunities. Savvy job hopefuls meticulously do their HOMEWORK super well, and way BEFORE an interview. Thus, they shrewdly come to know EVERYTHING that is important to railroad job interviewers, and what turnoffs to avoid. They are then able to successfully (and truthfully) articulate to railroad interviewers exactly what the railroad interviewers want to hear, and APPEAR very desirable, wonderful, and dazzling to them. Making sure one APPEARS favorably to a railroad IS everything in landing a railroad job.

[Anonymous]

That's true with any job. Including interviewing to become a dishwasher. You have told us no great secret.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

That's true with any job. Including interviewing to become a dishwasher. You have told us no great secret.
TIM A

[zardoz]

Tim-
It may or may not be true. It would be difficult for an "outsider" of any occupation to be able to BS an interviewer IF the interviewer actually knew something about the job. If it was just some HR person doing the interview, it would be easier to con them. There is so much 'inside' knowledge one learns on a job that would be unobtainable to a "poser'. A good interviewer can weed them out, and might actually be turned-off by the attempt of deceit.

And what croteaudd wrote may not be a great secret, he/she certainly presented it in a most interesting manner.

My advice to a job seeker would be to have done some research on the company (history, products they make, services they perform, etc) before going to the first interview. Let the interviewer know you know about the company and do want to work THERE (as opposed to just anywhere).

[zardoz]

Tim-
It may or may not be true. It would be difficult for an "outsider" of any occupation to be able to BS an interviewer IF the interviewer actually knew something about the job. If it was just some HR person doing the interview, it would be easier to con them. There is so much 'inside' knowledge one learns on a job that would be unobtainable to a "poser'. A good interviewer can weed them out, and might actually be turned-off by the attempt of deceit.

And what croteaudd wrote may not be a great secret, he/she certainly presented it in a most interesting manner.

My advice to a job seeker would be to have done some research on the company (history, products they make, services they perform, etc) before going to the first interview. Let the interviewer know you know about the company and do want to work THERE (as opposed to just anywhere).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by croteaudd

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527 A.D.) wrote of the political power of APPEARING good and wonderful to the masses in contrast to how one actually might be. (See The Prince, chapter 18) The underlying APPEARANCE concept holds true even with obtaining railroad employment. What one APPEARS to be can work wonders for one, or ruin prospects and close doors to opportunities. Savvy job hopefuls meticulously do their HOMEWORK super well, and way BEFORE an interview. Thus, they shrewdly come to know EVERYTHING that is important to railroad job interviewers, and what turnoffs to avoid. They are then able to successfully (and truthfully) articulate to railroad interviewers exactly what the railroad interviewers want to hear, and APPEAR very desirable, wonderful, and dazzling to them. Making sure one APPEARS favorably to a railroad IS everything in landing a railroad job.

Wasn't he also the guy who wrote "it is better to be feared, than to be loved"?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by croteaudd

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527 A.D.) wrote of the political power of APPEARING good and wonderful to the masses in contrast to how one actually might be. (See The Prince, chapter 18) The underlying APPEARANCE concept holds true even with obtaining railroad employment. What one APPEARS to be can work wonders for one, or ruin prospects and close doors to opportunities. Savvy job hopefuls meticulously do their HOMEWORK super well, and way BEFORE an interview. Thus, they shrewdly come to know EVERYTHING that is important to railroad job interviewers, and what turnoffs to avoid. They are then able to successfully (and truthfully) articulate to railroad interviewers exactly what the railroad interviewers want to hear, and APPEAR very desirable, wonderful, and dazzling to them. Making sure one APPEARS favorably to a railroad IS everything in landing a railroad job.

Wasn't he also the guy who wrote "it is better to be feared, than to be loved"?

[Anonymous]

When I hired out, the interview was in front of a panel of 6. A Roadforeman, Trainmaster, Manager field training, HR person, Union local chair, and a Trainman from that area. Most Bnsf interviews go something like this, give or take a few people. Kinda hard to BS that many people that have that many years RR experience. As you probably have heard, old RRs can be a growly bunch. Better know what you are talking about. My suggestion is if you have no prior experience, go to a choo-choo-u. Prince Matchebelli or whoever's scheme may make you look the fool.
Ken

[Anonymous]

When I hired out, the interview was in front of a panel of 6. A Roadforeman, Trainmaster, Manager field training, HR person, Union local chair, and a Trainman from that area. Most Bnsf interviews go something like this, give or take a few people. Kinda hard to BS that many people that have that many years RR experience. As you probably have heard, old RRs can be a growly bunch. Better know what you are talking about. My suggestion is if you have no prior experience, go to a choo-choo-u. Prince Matchebelli or whoever's scheme may make you look the fool.
Ken

[Anonymous]

Machiavelli's writings had nothing whatever to do with applying for a job. He wrote about getting and keeping power as a Prince/warlord.

Applying these lessons to railroad interviewing is like adding lemon juice to a good Martini. It doesn't taste right.

Railroad interviewers almost always include experienced railroaders, usually trainmasters, RFEs or superintendents. They know what they're looking for. If you don't have it, forget it.

LC

[Anonymous]

Machiavelli's writings had nothing whatever to do with applying for a job. He wrote about getting and keeping power as a Prince/warlord.

Applying these lessons to railroad interviewing is like adding lemon juice to a good Martini. It doesn't taste right.

Railroad interviewers almost always include experienced railroaders, usually trainmasters, RFEs or superintendents. They know what they're looking for. If you don't have it, forget it.

LC

[Anonymous]

Out of curiosity croteaudd, how many railroad jobs have you ever gotten> How many railroads have you been interviewed by? For what jobs?

LC

[Anonymous]

Out of curiosity croteaudd, how many railroad jobs have you ever gotten> How many railroads have you been interviewed by? For what jobs?

LC

[edblysard]

Funny, you know,
When I went in to interview with the Port, there was 20 guys in the waitingroom.
Some dressed for success, suits, ties, nice shiny loafers.
About half were in jeans and tee shirts, some of the rest, like myself, wore jeans and a nice shirt.
When it was my turn to interview, I went in and faced a panel of three.
Although I didnt know them at the time, they were a trainmaster, the director of HR, and a yardmaster.
They looked over my application, then the trainmaster asked me the only question asked.
"Why should we give you a job?"
I responded by handing him a card with the phone numbers of the HR offices of the last two jobs I have held.
I looked him straight in the eye, and told him,
"I can give you four reasons"
"One, I have only had 2 jobs in the last 12 years, I dont jump from job to job"
"Two, I have a wife, 2 kids and a house note"
"Three, I have always wanted to be a railroader, but never got a foot in the door before"
"Four, those are the phone numbers of the HR offices from my last two jobs, call them and ask how many days of work I missed, how often I called in sick, and how many negative entries are in my personal file"
He did call, spoke for a few minutes to who ever answered the phone, then directed me to a conference room at the end of the hall.
It was empty, but had a coffee pot, so I made a pot.
About 15 minutes later, another guy showed up, then over the course of the next two hours, several more came in.
Not a one of us knew if we were hired or not, no hint had been given.
Finally, the TM came in, looked around at us, then pointed at 5 of us, said "come with me."
Went to another conference room, he asked us when we could go to work.
Three said next two weeks, when it was my turn, I told him I had boots and gloves in the car, where did he need me to go?
The last guy said almost the same thing.
Rick and I were hired on the spot, directed to the company doctor for physicals, and were in class the next week.
Havent ever seen the other three.
Moral to the story, if you really want something, like a railroad job, be ready
to go and do and be what they need, someone who will show up on time, everytime, willing to work, and hungry enough to stand the abuse that comes with this job.
If all you want is the romance or the myth of the railroaders life, or the easy paycheck, they will see that, and you wont make the cut.
Sell yourself, but be ready to back up the bull with action.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Funny, you know,
When I went in to interview with the Port, there was 20 guys in the waitingroom.
Some dressed for success, suits, ties, nice shiny loafers.
About half were in jeans and tee shirts, some of the rest, like myself, wore jeans and a nice shirt.
When it was my turn to interview, I went in and faced a panel of three.
Although I didnt know them at the time, they were a trainmaster, the director of HR, and a yardmaster.
They looked over my application, then the trainmaster asked me the only question asked.
"Why should we give you a job?"
I responded by handing him a card with the phone numbers of the HR offices of the last two jobs I have held.
I looked him straight in the eye, and told him,
"I can give you four reasons"
"One, I have only had 2 jobs in the last 12 years, I dont jump from job to job"
"Two, I have a wife, 2 kids and a house note"
"Three, I have always wanted to be a railroader, but never got a foot in the door before"
"Four, those are the phone numbers of the HR offices from my last two jobs, call them and ask how many days of work I missed, how often I called in sick, and how many negative entries are in my personal file"
He did call, spoke for a few minutes to who ever answered the phone, then directed me to a conference room at the end of the hall.
It was empty, but had a coffee pot, so I made a pot.
About 15 minutes later, another guy showed up, then over the course of the next two hours, several more came in.
Not a one of us knew if we were hired or not, no hint had been given.
Finally, the TM came in, looked around at us, then pointed at 5 of us, said "come with me."
Went to another conference room, he asked us when we could go to work.
Three said next two weeks, when it was my turn, I told him I had boots and gloves in the car, where did he need me to go?
The last guy said almost the same thing.
Rick and I were hired on the spot, directed to the company doctor for physicals, and were in class the next week.
Havent ever seen the other three.
Moral to the story, if you really want something, like a railroad job, be ready
to go and do and be what they need, someone who will show up on time, everytime, willing to work, and hungry enough to stand the abuse that comes with this job.
If all you want is the romance or the myth of the railroaders life, or the easy paycheck, they will see that, and you wont make the cut.
Sell yourself, but be ready to back up the bull with action.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I agree, Ed. They usually pick off foamers pretty fast too.
Ken

[Anonymous]

I agree, Ed. They usually pick off foamers pretty fast too.
Ken

[croteaudd]

Some have wondered if I work for a railroad. You should know I am disabled and am not employed by a railroad for obvious reasons. Many well-meaning, physically fit persons fail to get hired, and are completely baffled. Reading the forum indicates that. The original post was an effort to help individuals beforehand to recognize the importance and power of how one appears to be to railroad interviewers. Unless one has some special natural gifts, failure to appear dazzling -- no matter how good and righteous a person might be -- more often than not dooms one to rejection by a railroad (or any highly sought after occupation). What is obvious to some is a mystery to others. But doing one's homework in advance has the potential to change the future for an individual.

[croteaudd]

Some have wondered if I work for a railroad. You should know I am disabled and am not employed by a railroad for obvious reasons. Many well-meaning, physically fit persons fail to get hired, and are completely baffled. Reading the forum indicates that. The original post was an effort to help individuals beforehand to recognize the importance and power of how one appears to be to railroad interviewers. Unless one has some special natural gifts, failure to appear dazzling -- no matter how good and righteous a person might be -- more often than not dooms one to rejection by a railroad (or any highly sought after occupation). What is obvious to some is a mystery to others. But doing one's homework in advance has the potential to change the future for an individual.