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High Speed Rail proponents take note: THIS is the right way to develop a HSR project
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[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by TomDiehl</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by futuremodal</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by TomDiehl</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by futuremodal</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by TomDiehl</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by futuremodal</i> <br /><br />[quote]QUOTE: <i>Originally posted by jeaton</i> <br /><br />2500 miles in 10 days? Average speed of 10.42 MPH is high speed? <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />You need to access a globe before you jump to such conclusions. The 2500 miles is only to China's western border, while the 10 days is for the entire trip from China to Europe. My interpretation of the article is that only the Chinese portion will be de facto HSR, with the rest of the line standard operations. <br /> <br />The bottom line is that this new line will result in a transit time from eastern China to Europe's markets that is 5 days less than the current top transit time. That's huge by any standard. And what isn't really mentioned in the story would be the ability of western Chinese factories to get their product to port in a few days for US bound export, while we in America still need up to two weeks for our manufactured goods to get from plant to port. And our plants are paying captive rates for this slow service, while the Chinese plants will probably be given at cost rates to move their products to port. <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />But in the US, they have the option of trucks, so the "captive" argument doesn't wash. Coast to coast by truck is only a few days. Or are you saying trucks don't compete with rail freight? <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead] <br /> <br />Why is this so hard to grasp? <br /> <br />When speaking of "rail captivity", we are speaking of being captive to the rates and services of only one Class I railroad. We are not saying that any area of the country is captive to only one transportation company. <br /> <br />Try this for size: <br /> <br />Name one, just one, area of the country that is limited to only one trucking company for it's trucking needs. <br /> <br />Name one, just one, area of the country that is limited to only one barging company for it's waterway transportation needs. <br /> <br />Name one, just one, area of the country that is limited to only one airfreight company for it's airfreight transportation needs. <br /> <br />If you can do that, then you will have embarked on an intellectual exercise that will pull you out of your one track "let them eat cake" mindset. <br /> <br />Evolve, please. <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />Name one, just one area of the country where rail is the only freight shipping option. Then "captivity" might have a meaning. To imply one doesn't compete with the other is a bit tunnel visioned. Why does it matter if they only have one company offering a rail shipping option when they have all the other options mentioned to ship their freight? <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />If I may keep this veering within the veered context aka captivity, I will name more than one area of the country where a single Class I is the only rail service provider <b>for it's rail shipping needs</b>: <br /> <br />Southern Idaho (UP) <br />Eastern Montana (BNSF) <br />Northern Montana (BNSF) <br />Northwestern Montana (BNSF) <br />Western North Dakota (BNSF) <br />Western Wyoming (UP) <br />Southern Nevada (UP) <br />Southern Arizona (UP) <br />Northern Arizona (BNSF) <br />Eastern Oregon (UP) <br />North Central Washington (BNSF) <br />Northwestern South Dakota (BNSF) <br />*Northern Nevada (UP) <br />*All of Utah (UP) <br />*Eastern Colorado (UP) <br /> <br />*(Yeah, I know. BNSF supposedly was granted operating rights over the "Central Corridor" through Northern Nevada, Northern Utah, and Eastern Colorado, but from what I understand BNSF isn't too interested in using these rights to provide real time competition to UP for online traffic) <br /> <br />I haven't even mentioned the captive areas east of the Mississippi, nor in Canada. Nor have I mentioned the carload customers who are captive e.g. whose products are predicated on shipment directly from the production facility by rail. <br /> <br />Case closed. <br /> <br />Now, can we please go back to the topic of HSR for freight? Thank you. <br /> <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />So none of these have a truck shipping option? Rail captivity might have been an issue in the 19th century, but you really need to come into the 20th century. <br /> <br />Most of us are in the 21st. <br /> <br />Or would that be some kind of "evolution" thing? <br />[/quote] <br /> <br />You might be in the 21st ward, but not the 21st century. <br /> <br />What you are suggesting is that certain commodities (whose characteristics make them best suited for bulk transportation modes) can simply be sloughed off onto some other type of transport mode. <br /> <br />The coal fired power plant that takes 10,000 tons of coal every two weeks can simply call up all the trucking companies and have them make 600 collective round trips every month if they don't like the captive rates the one railroad charges. "Help Wanted: 300 CDL certified drivers for twice monthly round trip from Wyoming to Oregon ASAP". Yep, that's realistic. <br /> <br />The power plant is captive in the real world. If the power plant can't get reliable rates and services from it's one rail connection, they will have to shut down. There is no realistic transportation alternative. <br /> <br />Perhaps the 52 car shuttle loader for grain trains out in Smalltown, North Dakota can simply utilize 150 truckloads per cycle if BNSF (the only physical rail connection to the elevator) won't serve them anymore. That's it, that's the ticket! Heck, the population of such towns is probably 100 folks, where are they going to find 100 or so CDL certified drivers? <br /> <br />Smalltown, Montana is captive in the real world. Without reliable rates and services from BNSF, the shuttle loader will be shut down. There is no realistic transportation alternative available. <br /> <br />The cardboard plant in Northwestern Montana needs to move 500,000 cubic feet of cardboard every week to the East Coast. Well, that's only 100 truckloads per week, no problem. Of course, without adequate boxcar service from it's one Class I connection e.g. getting those 30 high cube boxcars in and out per week at a decent rate, the plant will be shut down because it cannot compete with the Canadian plant that is served by two Class I's with more competitive rates and service levels. <br /> <br />The Montana cardboard plant is captive in the real world. There is no realistic transporation alternative available. The only real alternative is to shut down the plant, which is not a <i>transportation</i> alternative, but an <i>operating</i> alternative. <br /> <br />You live in a fantasy world when you suggest such entities have transportation alternatives. If <b>realistic</b> transportation alternatives were available, such entities would utilize them and be able to stay in business. Since such <b>realistic</b> alternatives do not exist, the meaning of the word <i>alternative</i> moves beyond talk of transportation to the realm of operating parameters. <br /> <br />
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