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In the Kalmbach book "Steam Glory" there is a story about N&W's Y6 which includes comparison tables with Lima's 2-6-6-6s and UPs 4-8-8-4s. There are numerous books out about N&W locomotives. Arguably the best is "N&W - Giant of Steam" by Col. Lewis I. Jeffries which is about to be reissued in a much expanded version by the N&W HS. Those interested can also be enlightened by volumes 2, 3 and 4 of Louis Newton's "Rails Remembered". Newton had a hands-on relationship with N&W steam matched by few, today. There is a book out on the class A which, I understand, is being expanded for a second edition which will be published by the N&W HS. A new thread about the Y6 will not plow any new ground for N&W enthusiasts and will irritate steam fans of other railroads. Where N&W excelled was designing locomotives to develop their maximum horsepower in the speed range where the locomotive was expected to spend most of its time. The Y6 maxed out at 25 MPH; when you're hauling heavy tonnage uphill, that maximum is ideal, and neither Big Boy or the Allegheny would be comfortable - or economical - doing it (even if they could handle N&W's curvature). To this add in the fact that both the Big Boy and the Allegheny outweighed the Y6 by about 140 or 150 thousand pounds, and were both more expensive, and you can appreciate the Y6 better. As far as Gross Ton Miles per Train Hour per Dollar, neither can touch the Y6 in any service. The weight differential between the Big Boy and the Allegheny and N&W's 2-6-6-4 is even more atrocious, being in the neighborhood of a flat 100 tons (573,000 pounds for the A against an average of about 770,000 pounds for the Alleghenies and Big Boys). The Alleghenies averaged (for all 60 Alleghenies versus the 43 As) costing $100,000 more per engine and tender than the As. The cost figures used for the As - the first ten built in 1936-7 - were only slightly less than the first 4-6-6-4s Alco built for UP in 1936-7, so N&W's cost figures were not out of line. When you want to compare anybody else's engines with N&W's, you might feel pretty good about it until you start to factor in weights and dollars. Then you lose. N&W designed tenders better than most other folks, too, figured on the basis of empty weight to loaded weight. The A would handle a 16,000 ton train of coal from Williamson to Portsmouth, 112 miles, nonstop in about 4 hours, turning in around 500,000 gross ton miles per train hour. If the A had to stop and start his train twice due to operating conditions (detouring around track work, or setting out a bad order car, or something), he'd still make it on a tender of coal (the A [auxiliary] tank increased water supply so that was no problem). I don't doubt that the Big Boy could make that run on a tank of coal, but if it had to stop and start the train twice (and starting and accelerating is where you burn it up) I'm not sure he could make it. I'm not sure the 2-6-6-6 could make it anyway, because his AMC designed tender didn't carry as much coal as did the A (figuring an A tank for both engines, just to keep water from being a factor). The Yellowstones? I don't think they could have made it on a tank of coal - not reliably. Cylinders too big, drivers too small, boiler pressure too low, which also militates against the 2-6-6-6. Volume three of Newton's "Rails Remembered" contains records of test runs on N&W's Pocahontas Division with Y6bs with tonnage trains, which include fuel and water consumption figures, as well as GTM/TH. The value of compounding comes to light full force. He also has records of As on the Scioto Divison between Williamson and Portsmouth that may be enlightning. He was present for these tests and kept his own records. To answer the question "what made N&W steam superior" the answer is that their power was designed by their own designers for the jobs at hand, without having any undesirable outside influence (need for an outside builder to try to sell more locomotives than actually needed to move the business, for instance) or any pet theories that wouldn't actually contribute to maximizing the profitability of the design. N&W made some mistakes in locomotive design early on, but was determined not to repeat them. Remember - Alco and Baldwin and Lima were in the business of making money by selling locomotives, and if they could sell 25 69-inch drivered 4-6-6-4s to a mountain railroad that could actually move the business with, say, 18 or 20 lower-drivered 2-8-8-2s, they'd try their darnedest to sell the 25 Challengers. And they did, in cases like the Clinchfield, which bought 60 MPH Challengers for a railroad that only had about one stretch of track good for more than about 45 or 50. The Western Maryland is another example. N&W was not in the business of making money building locomotives. They were in the business of economically building locomotives that would help them to make the most money running a railroad. Carrying gross income over to net was the name of the game, and paying dividends to the stockholders. Go back to the years between the end of WWII and dieselization, and tell the forum how many railroads consistently beat them at those two items. Allegheny fans - I'll give you a clue. C&O didn't even come close. Don't try to rationalize stuff like passenger losses and time freight losses; your arguments don't hold water. In an era where a railroad's potential profitability could be measured by the amount of coal business it had, C&O had more coal to haul than N&W and an easier railroad to haul it over; they had roundhouses full of the most fashionable steam motive power ever conceived by the mind and built by the hand of man; on the western haul they handled their coal all the way to Lake Erie while N&W (of that era) had to deliver its west coal to connections at Columbus. And with all that, they were never in the profit-making league with N&W. That's what counts. Always did. Always will. Oh, and trainjunky29 - your weight figures include tender, and last I heard the tender didn't contribute to tractive effort. And Y6's tractive effort figures in its final form were 166,000 pounds simple, 132,000 compound. Old Timer
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