Derail switches?

[Zwingle]

Hi All,

Was doing some research...
The following link is to a photo of the China/Russia border. The left track is Chinese. The track on the right is the slightly wider Russian gauge. Note the "derail switches"... Quite unusual. Anything like these ever exist in North America[?]
http://www.hkrs.org.hk/members/wytang/Dongbei/DSC06445.JPG

Incidentally, here's a pic of a turntable using both gauges:
http://www.hkrs.org.hk/members/wytang/Dongbei/DSC06475.JPG

[Hugh Jampton]

Donno about North America, but these are common in the UK and Europe.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It looks like an interesting variation on split switch derails found in the United States often guarding approaches to movable bridges. In the United States, such a derail usually has only one movable point.

[mudchicken]

Power split point derails....becoming familiar part of TOFC/COFC yards in conjunction with power blue flags. (power "alligators"[tup][tup][tup])

[Anonymous]

Picture taken at the Jonquiere (Quebec) yard, Lac-St-Jean Sub of the Canadian National Railway.

[heavyd]

Yah, they are all over. Popular in CTC for entrances/exits to yards from main lines to prevent "lose" cars from rolling out of yard and fowling the main tracks.

[BaltACD]

In frequent use through out the US. More positive derailing than the one that fits on top of the rail....sometime with the rail top derails cars can 'jump' the derail and continue to the point of danger...not often but it does occur.

[Anonymous]

We have derails in the US, but I've never seen one like that. On the shortline near my house they have this derail:

[silicon212]

There are derails such as the Russian one on the UP Phoenix Line, McQueen siding east end is an example.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: [i]Anything like these ever exist in North America[?]

Lancaster, Pa Dillerville yard uses on exactly like it.

[mudchicken]

In any language, "gravity works"....In some places more effectively than others.

[Anonymous]

The West Virginia Central has a split rail derail at High Falls in the mountains near Elkins, West Virginia. It is to prevent a reproduction Edwards rail bus from occupying the same tracks as the diesel trains. It's a one way only derail.

[David_Telesha]

The New Haven had those protecting moving bridge spans...

There was a picture online but I can't find it.

[Tony G]

This type of derail is common at interlockings here in Australia, as is dual gauge, either 3'6"-std, or 5'3"-std. Not so long ago we had triple gauge yards at a number of South Australian stations, but the plague of standardisation and "rationalisation" has eradicated such curiosities, and to see triple gauge track now you need to see the National Rail Museum in Adelaide. Loco depots in Melbourne and Adelaide still use dual gauge turntables, however, for 5'3''-std.

[mackb4]

We call those type of switch derails "alligator derails " here on the Pocahontas Division of the NS.Because if you get thru one,they will [xx(] BITE YOU ! We have them at locations where you are going from double to single main.And at most wye's.Of course it is to prevent head-on's and failure to stop before entering a main line.I have known of several cases where crews have gone thru them,turned over engines,and walked away with [B)]minor injuries.But they did the main purpuse,and that was to save lives[^].

[Anonymous]

There is one on 3 track at CPW 511 at the west end of Cheyenne...it looks just like this one (powered, controlled by dispatcher, etc.)

[Anonymous]

There is a manual, single point derail protecting the yard lead at Essex, Montana on the BNSF, at the foot of Walton Hill in Marias Pass.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone! This is the first time I've replied to one of these subjects so I'll quickly introduce myself... Trevor from Sydney, Australia, also lived in L.A. - an expat of sorts, driver for Railcorp, fireman/secondperson for Lachlan Valley Rail Freight.
This type of derail device is commonly refered to as a set of "catchpoints" here,down under. The other type which sits on top of the rail is nicknamed a "frog" because it jumps up onto the rail.

[Zwingle]

Thanks everyone!

Wow, I'm 39.. Always a railfan in the US.. Sorta grew up with the RI and especially Milwaukee Road, where relatives worked in the corporate office and shops. Never seen anything like those before. I had seen the "frog" types. I'm stunned and rather humbled that everyone but me knew what they were. [*^_^*]
Hey Trevor... its interesting how a subject like this one will inspire people who have never written a reply before to say something. I have a few more subjects that I'll post later. I have questions that could only be answered here. I'm so impressed with the knowledge. [bow]
=)

[oubliette]

We call them catch points and as stated in other posts they protect the mainline from runaway trains. We have two sets of them coming off our depot, see picture.

[eihndrsn]

I was interested that the three rail turntable did not transition the inner rail to balance the table for both gauges but noted that all tracks from the table were single gauge. Here in Australia when we had several "border" stations where standard and broad gauges met the approach track was three rail so the inner rail had to transition in the middle of the table by fixed points and check check rails so either end of the table had the same configuration. Additionally that put the loco balanced over the pivot. As to catch points, I have seen examples where they were placed in the pointwork because there was not enough room in advance of the switch to derail the vehicle clear of the running line(s).

[Zwingle]

Hmm.. In that first photo did anyone notice how filthy the ballast is on the Russian side? Here is a shot of a Russian freight train coming through the same border:
http://www.hkrs.org.hk/members/wytang/Dongbei/DSC06448.JPG

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not, that reminds me of my childhood days of trainwatching back when I was a kid! The crew of the local from Abilene or Salina to Junction City, KS on UP's Kansas Pacific Main would periodically spend the night in Junction City after doing switching at the local yard and grain elevators, and the loco was parked for the night on a spur by the depot that was protected by just such a device (albeit on just one rail)

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oubliette

We call them catch points and as stated in other posts they protect the mainline from runaway trains. We have two sets of them coming off our depot, see picture.

For North America:

Proper term = switch point derail (Nickname: Alligator) [CN Fan's photo is a manual hand throw version with a high-star stand]

Proper term= flop-over or sliding derail (2 types)...Nickname: Hoptoad [bigboys' photo is the sliding variety]

[John Bakeer]

Hmmm1,
Sums up catch poin/derail adequately for me. The TT's neat too.
John B.

[Eric Stuart]

Roy's pic shows a typical application of these items in the UK. Here, as in Oz, it seems, they are usually called Catch Points and occasionally Trap Points.

There are a number of types:
1 - As shown in the photos
2 - Similar, but only the one blade leading outwards.
3/4 - Either sort, with sand or shingle to slow down the derailed vehicle
5 - A complete point, including frog, leading to soil or a pile of sand or shingle at the side of the track.
6 - Similar to No 1, but with the blades leading the wheels to both sides at the same time. This was likly to stop the vehicle the quickest, I suspect!

They are used in UK to stop vehicles heading into a conflict with movements on another track; to prevent them wrongly entering a single line section and to stop them approaching an open movable bridge. London Underground had/has ones of type 6 in some tunnel sidings, to stop trains moving out onto running lines.

Remember, also, that many freight trains on British lines had no automatic brakes until a few decades ago. Thus, a further application of Catch Points was on gradients, so that any wagons that became detached from a train going up-hill would be deflected to the side, if the Guard was unable to stop the wagons by the handbrakes. These points were sprung, so that a train going up-hill would pu***hem closed as they went past, but they would then spring open again as soon as the train had passed, ready to do their job if needed.

Eric Stuart

[BruceGKoprucki]

Great photo of China-Russia border interchange;doubt I'll get there soon other than by your photo. Those remote-controlled derails/catch points are probably designed to keep unauthorized trains from entering Russian territory, if you note the direction and location of the points. The Soviet Union/Russia has typically been defensive of its borders and China/Russian relations have soured from time to time.

Incidentally, defense from invaders is one of the reasons Russia has a 5 foot gauge rather than standard gauge; invaders would have to transfer goods and people between standard gauge and 5 foot guage or take a lot of time/energy/trouble to change the track gauge. The Germans found that out on the Eastern Front in WWII (1941-1945)!

Bruce

[Eric Stuart]

Interesting suggestion that the derails are to stop unwanted trains entering Russia!!
There were places on the Iron Crurtain where trains crossd that had catch points to stop unauthorised trains LEAVING!!! On the Czechoslovak/West German boarder (as was), this was done after a train driver drove through the boarder taking willing and unwilling passengers to the West. After that, the points were installed and the Boarder guards unlocked the points when they were happy that all was well.

By the way, in France, derails like the one in 4884bigboy's pic are used, either permanent or clamped on the rails as needed. London Underground have some, too, where ther is not enough room for Catch Points.
Eric Stuart

[canazar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by silicon212

There are derails such as the Russian one on the UP Phoenix Line, McQueen siding east end is an example.

Silicon21, I cant belive you posted that up, you beat me. Guess its good to know that I am not alone out here! They just put those de-rail switches in about 6 months ago or so. I think it is part of the imporvement program UP has been doing in Phoenix. UP has been Pretty busy around here lately