Railfanning post 11/9

[johnaday]

Hi everyone, I have yet to read the "Cover Story" in April Trains, I have to wait a few more days before mine will arrive in Britain. However, I can guess exactly what it is all about.
I visit the USA/Canada three times each year. A six wek visit to the Chicago area every spring time to visit family allows me to take MANY photographs around the Windy City, the former WC being a speciality subject, having photted on there from its SOO days, through WC and now (sadly) CN. Plenty of variety over the last 20 years. My other two visits are usually 21 days visits qwith three railfanning friends of mine - solid railraod photography. Out west mainly, Tehachapi, Cajon, Abo Canyon, Canyon Diablo, Meadow Valley Wash - you name it we have ben there. We already cancelled the first of this years visits, which would have been end of Jan to 18th February. Basically we have been frightened off by the scare tactics and over reaction by official sources in relation to our hobby. I personally can boast a base in Chicago. My colleagues, and the many other Brits than railfan in the USA each year cannot. It is a long way across the Atlantic to be sent home not being able to carry out the hobby that we love and enjoy. Last June I was challenged by Police several times for photographing at grade crossings and parallel roadways. On three occassions I was actually on a pedal cyucle in the Round Lake/Lake Villa ILL area. Not the sort of transport you would think of using if you needed a quick escape!!! So- what is my point of this, first I cannot wait to read the article. Further, I can get pretty well ALL the information about USA railroad via the internet, hobby/railfan sites/official railroad sites. I can get installation and area maps digitally through any number of mapping programmes. Yes I am just a railfan with limited abilities and resources. If I can easily gain that information then I am sure that persons with more sinister motives, no doubt with better resources, can get even more concise and precise information. In some way the "authorities" are making visits/tourism dificult - yes we spend money when we are there, hotels/food/film/gas/auto rental/hobby shops/Wal-Mart!! - even in just a little way it is having a down effect on the economy. For goodness sake can these people not have just a modicom of common sense and see that railfan photographers might just be the asset the security forces need rather than it being a hindrance. At present I am even apprehensive about my family visit this spring and will wait until I have the full picture before making my decision. John Day, Ipswich, England

[Anonymous]

I see what you mean.I'm a volunteer on the 261 and if I was working on it and I had a governmet ofical breathing down my neck I'd be afraid to work.They should lighten a bit and let us do what we have doing for years!!!!

[Anonymous]

If you are a true rail fan, Sir you have nothing to worry about. My question to you is, why do you come to our country to watch trains when you have so many interesting trains in Great Britan? I had the Privillage of being stationed in your country. Every weakend I used to go to places like Darby or Cardiff to watch trains. I became such a regular at Darby that several train crewmen would invite me home for Tea. I miss watching trains in your Country. Had a great time doing it and met some great Peaple.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

As our friend from Ipswich has said, anybody who want to find out about railways or railroads can find out as much informaton as they need without comming within miles of a railroad.
This kind of activity is somewhat of a knee jerk reaction to what was lets face it, a couple of terrible deeds. Now anybody who even glances at a train may find the police bearing down on them. Our hobby if followed properly is harmless
and I had been lead to understand has, on several occassions actually helped a railroad, when such railfans have seen something out of the ordinary.

I'm sure that if railfans if necessary told the local police what they were doing and that there were no ill gains to be got, then railfans could get on with their hobby, and the police could concentrate on more important matters.
RJC

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I´m from Germany and I´m working in the management of the big federal owned German Railway (DB). In 1995 I used to work also some time for the AAR in Washington DC. So I know the US very well and I used to travel there every year.

Already in 1995 my expierence was that taking train fotos in the USA was much more difficult than in any western European Country. Unbelievable that this situation is now even worse. I don´t want to visit a country where I´m suspicious when I´m interested in trains.That´s why I decided now for the second time NOT to make my yearly fantrip to the US! Though I would love to see the big american fright trains again. Insted I will travel to Cuba. To US standards this is no free country but as a railfan you face there really less problems! What a strange world! The nation which wants to defend freedom turns out that it is limiting personnel freedom for it´s citizens and visitors itself.

I hope very much that this situation is going to change quickly again.

Christoph Grimm/Munich/Germany

[johnaday]

Hi, my memories of 261 are good, had several shots last June on the weekend vist to Galesburg and Rochelle. Were you on the train!! Also some superb shots on it's deadhead move back to Minneapolis leaving Western Avenue Yard - superb smoke with "Downtown Chicago" in the background. Waiting for Dave Goodheart's video of the weekend. Met up with him at a couple of spots.

Enjoy.

JD

[johnaday]

Hi Tim, things have changed here in the UK. Short trains, most of the freight hauled by GM Class 66 loco's, few (very few) loco hauled passenger trains. Scenery ok in the summer - when, I repeat ehen, the sun shines. We get too many dismal days with unpredicatble traffic flows and a railway that shuts down almost at mid-day on Saturdays!! January/February in California/Arizona/Nevada/New Mexico - good light - great locations - proper trains - and (up until now) absolutely no hassle!

Cardiff is still one of the UK's hot spots, Derby not so bad. I live in East Anglia, flat land, about 30 Intermodal trains every 24 hours, limited locations, sun about 1 day in 7 if we are lucky this time of year. Overgrown shrubbery near railway does little to enhance today's photographic opportunities. Were you station in the east/ Bentwaters/Woodbridge/Mildenhall/Alconbury??

Good Luck.

JD

[Anonymous]

I recently received my April 2003 issue of trains and read the railfanning article. I must say I have to laugh. I am a railfan in the New Jersey/New YOrk area and I have had no problems photographing trains. I have seen an increase in railroad police at some crossings and a little more patrol than usual but I haven't had any interaction with any police. I wouldn't let all this stuff make you cancel any railfanning trips. I would just use the best judgement of where to photograph trains and if the police question you be honest. The most they can really do is ask you to leave. Unless of course you are tresspassing. I would then just move onto a different spot. I am a spot news photographer as well and sometimes I get harassed by police. If the subject you are photographing is in public view and you didn't trespass or pass police tape its ok for you to take photos. I think the same would apply here as well. Think about it. If the train passes thru town along a street why would anyone bother you for taking photos of it. I could understand someone asking what you are doing. Normal everyday people sometimes ask me what I am doing so if a cop asks just tell him. I think the railfans are excellent and always keep and eye out for the railroad. I remember we called railroad police to report doors open on several containers on a passing freight. They were quite happy we called. Turns out that when the train stopped somewhere, someone robbed the goods out of the container. Use your head out there and be safe..

[Anonymous]

Seems I can be anywhere (on public property)waiting for a train and not even get a second look when I have my 5 year old son with me. Law enforcement, the general public and railroad employees are sometimes even downright friendly.
However, I can be on the same overpass or road waiting by myself and get a much different reaction. I find this very amusing to say the least!

[Anonymous]

A friend of my has just returned from a holiday in the Mid-West. He, like me, is interested in the former Rio Grande and its associated lines.
Now understanding the way some people feel after September 11, before he went out railfanning, he contacted the local railraod police and told them what he was doing, and asking whether then would be any problems.
He said that because he took the trouble to explain what he intended to do with the local railroad police, he found them to be very helpful.
They asked him where and when he would be out photoraphing, so that the relevant authorities were kept informed. This he did and he hand no prolmes at all. Apparently, one passer by did phone the police, but was reassured by them as they knew where and what he was doing.

When he went to thank the police before returning home, the said sorry for all the inconvenience but they did not want to take chances. When my friend told the police how easy it was to obtain information, very relevant information, on the U.S. Railroad on the Internet, and not step foot within 5 miles of a railroad track, they were amazed. How did they think that he and I are able to model our favourite railroad, because I cannot afford to spend money on air travel over the "pond" whenever I needed more information.
And when he told the police how easy it was for a person to obtain good information concerning airports, aeroplanes and airlines also on the net, one of the policeman was heard to say that they were fighting a loosing battle.

It appears that for as long as we have the present ill feeling amongst certain members of ethnic groups, then it would be advisable to tell somebody in authority what you would like to do. After all it takes some of the pressure off them.

In the mean time all of you railfans, as we say over here, keep a stiff upper lip, and don't let the b...... get you down. Enjoy your hobby .

Ron C.
Lancing England.

[BRAKIE]

John,Friday and Saturday was nice days here in the Buckeye State.So Friday I went railfaning..I was not bother by the local Police or the NS police nor did any passing train crew reported me.I went back Saturday and met up with 2 other railfans.Again no hassles from the Police,NS Police nor was we reported by any passing train crew.We was on public property at the old T&OC station...I have spoke to other railfans that have been out this year and so far no problems.

I did hear a story where a railfan was arrest by the Lima Police for loitering..I do not know the whole story..I ask a fellow club member who is a Police officer and he kinda felt it was the end results of a bad confrotation with a officer.He also stated most officers will tell you to move along and if one fails to do that or returns after the officer tells you to leave then they will be suject to arrest.He also stated the charges may be dropped by the DA if the case load is to great for such a minor offence.He says to move along if you are told to so and all should go well.He also caution against becoming combative-that is to say argue with the officer.You will loose.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

That's good advice. If a police officer tells you to leave even after explaining why you are watching or photographing trains from public property do it! Don't try to educate them! However, you might try to note the officer's name or badge number, and write a letter of complaint to the mayor of their city or their chief of police to point out there are no laws against photographing trains from public property where it is safe to do so.

[Anonymous]

If you are on public property I say don't leave. This is still a free country!!! Here in NJ we are told that the homeless people have a right to hang out in train stations, so why does a railfan not have a right to watch trains? Ordering you to move from public property would seem be a violation of your civil rights. Maybe the best thing to do would be to leave and come back with a second person with a video camera and record the conversation with the police. This should really upset them!!

[louisnash]

Was just looking at NS website concerning their view on photos of their railroad. Go to WWW.nscorp.com, Click on the journalist page and read area saying "Visiting NS Property." They allow pictures of their railroad as long as you are well away from their property. They do not allow trespassing.So just make a copy of that page and get out and get those NS photos. If you are questioned you have their copy of their guidelines. Just a railfan helping a fellow railfan.