CSX St. Louis - Cincinnati line

[MP173]

I was in Southern Illinois Sunday - Tuesday and was somewhat surprized by the activity on the old B&O mainline.

A few years ago it was in danger of being abandoned or sold, but on Monday, as I travelled along US 50 to St. Louis it seemed downright busy.

Between 8am and 4pm, I saw or heard 5 CSX trains on the line. One was a westbound empty coal hopper train, with UP engines. The last time I was down there I was told by a signal maintainer that they were going to start running coal trains...I guess that has occurred! Also, there were large piles of removed ties awaiting disposal.

So, I guess my question is this...did I see all or most of the activity in one short period of time? Or has traffic increased on the line? Most of the trains I saw had UP engines, which is no surprize.

Also, perhaps someone can help me with this. At Aviston, Il the westbound coal train held up east of the siding as an eastbound entered the siding. Only after the eastbound in the siding came to a complete stop, did the westbound hopper train start moving. Why?

Wouldnt the signal at the east end (on the main) show "approach"? Is this some sort of safety issue? I was and still am puzzled.

ed

[JoeKoh]

Ed
Csx has a habit of running trains in spurts.sometimes 1 or 2 an hour then they try to cram mulitiple trains (ive seen 4 in 20 minutes) together.my guess on the siding is they might of had to wait for the switch to be thrown before the train moved.over in deshler they have a lot of trains that are too big for the sidings on the toledo branch.
stay safe
joe

[MP173]

Joe:

That might be it, as I checked Bullsheet and there are still only five manifest/auto trains scheduled. But, it sure looked impressive.

Ok, lets turn this another direction. When the eastbound left the siding, there would be no way to restore the switch to normal, unless the conductor walked the length of the train.

Do they leave the switch open and then the track warrents reflects that? Then the next train must close the switch or run into the siding? It seems as if there is always going to be a switch open somewhere.



ed

[nanaimo73]

This line picked up some traffic off of the former L&N line from St. Louis to Evansville. East of Cincinnati (Midland City) has been torn up. It was a major mistake by CSX to remove the rails rather than just mothballing it. It was first built as 6 foot gauge.

[MP173]

I NEVER figured out why they ripped out that line in Ohio. It made no sense whatsoever.

ed

[Anonymous]

I have seen this line before. It runs through Olney IL, through Flora IL, and on to St. Louis. These tracks seem to be in good shape. A friend of mine has visited Olney before and says that he sees quite a few trains on this main line. A good place to watch trains on these tracks is at the City Park in Flora Illinois. The CSXT main line is about 10 feet south of the park in downtown Flora. A few trains off of this main line used to come through Fairfield. At Flora, a secondary spur came off of this main and ran down through Fairfield and on to Shawneetown. In the 1980s, this line was abandoned and is now gone. At Flora, you can still see parts of the old line that ran down to Shawneetown.

[MP173]

Bobby:

Thanks for the updates on this line and the old L&N line thru Mt. Vernon.

I was really impressed with the B&O depot in Flora, it has really been refurbished. What is the status of the ex Southern (NS) line thru Fairfield?

I would assume it is a pretty busy line, perhaps 15-20 trains per day. Is the line CTC 'ed or is it track warrants?

One place I always wanted to go was Bluford, Il. I believe that was a crew changing point on the IC on the old Edgewater cutoff. The whole Edgewater cutoff line seems to be a straight line that avoids nearly all towns. have you done anything on that line?

ed

[Anonymous]

MP173:
The Norfolk Southern Line through Fairfield carries about 15-20 trains a day. There is no CTC signals. Track warrants are issued by radio and signals are in place that automatically change when a train is on the tracks. The main through here is probably the only main line in Southern Illinois not using CTC. Sometimes it is hard to catch a train going through here, because you never know when one will come. Sometimes, 5 will come all at the same time and it will be another 5 hours before anything else shows up. Most trains through here simply take their time and are not in a rush, however, we do have some high priority Intermodal trains that come through at fast speed. The tracks here are very similar to the way they were back when it was still Southern, NS has simply maintained them good over the years, installed new grade crossing lights, and extended one of the secondary sidings through here. The turnouts here are manual. This slows everything down, because a worker has to get out and switch it and lock it in place to get on a siding. Like I mentioned before, we don't have a lot of fast, priority trains through here, but this line does carry quite a bit of traffic. At Princeton Indiana there is a Toyota plant that this line serves. Long auto rack trains are loaded full and come through Fairfield on their way to St. Louis. At least once or twice a week, a coal train will come through on it's way from Mount Carmel. There is a big power plant over there that NS serves. Overall, these tracks are medium used, which is kind of good in the fact that you can be by the tracks and not have to worry all the time about if a train is sneaking up on you very fast. Earlier this year, NS cut down several trees along the tracks which makes it easier to see the trains. Earlier this year, we had 2 accidents at Grade Crossings. At Sims, a mail track was hit, and mail went flying all over a corn field. In Wayne City, a woman in a car was crossing the tracks and was hit by the local. Both accidents occurred at Crossings with lights. After those accidents, they installed 2 more sets of lights and gates at 2 other crossings. Anyway, a good place to watch trains that come through here is at Princeton Indiana. There's a little depot over there that has the Gibson County Tourist offices in it. It sits right beside the NS main and beside the CSX main that goes from Evansville to Chicago. You can see about 60 trains a day at Princeton. You can also go inside the depot where it's nice and air conditioned and look at all the pictures and things while you wait for a train to come by.

At Bluford, the same NS main crosses over the CN Main line. I think the CN is called the Bluford District. There is not a diamond, the NS crosses over the CN on a bridge. I like Bluford, but there is no really good spot to sit for a long time to watch trains. The 3 spots that I watch trains around here, is south of my Grandma's house on an old farm road, at Princeton IN, and at Evansville's CSX Howell Yard. Effingham Illinois is also a fairly good place to watch trains. At Effingham, the CSX (Former Conrail) main crosses the CN. I think about 50 trains go through there a day.

[Anonymous]

I was just wondering if CSX was finally going to follow through on their plans to sell some of their mainline from St. Louis to Cincinnati, particularly from North Vernon east to Lawrenceburg, IN.  BTW, is the mainline from Seymour, IN to Cincy still active as well?  I'm not sure so if anyone could answer my question as best as possible, sweet!!

Thank you,

Chad

[L&N_LCL_SUB]

I frequently run the route from Louisville to Washington In. and the last we heard was the UP ran an empty coal train all the way across to Cincinnatti to determine the condition of the track.  UP engines are always used as a leader coming out of Louisville because when they reach the UP they have to have a Cab Control in the lead.  As for why the other train did not move untill after the other went into the siding is probably a number of factors.  This track is TWC-DTC territory.  You have to have blocks to run on it and the signals only tell the condition of the track ahead.  The absolue signals are on the opposite end of the siding or main for which you are travelling.  The wesbound train could have pulled all the way down to the west end to meet the train IF they can get the dispatchers to answer and get the block.  These dispatchers on this territory are notorious for being old heads that have earned the right through seniority to work a territory with only a handful of trains.  You are lucky to get one to answer a tone within a half an hour.  I have waited for up to two and a half hours to get one to answer or even answer the phone if you call.  Having said that, overtime starts after some point, so why go out of your way to hurry if nobody in Jacksonville does? 

[MP173]

badcareerchoice:

Does that name reflect your feelings of working on the railroad?  Given all that train crews have to put up with, I could certainly understand that.

I really appreciate your explanation of my question of over a year ago.  It makes sense the way you explained it. 

I assume if you run L'ville to Washington that you run up the old Monon route to Seymour and then west to Washington.  What are the track conditions on that route?  How many scheduled trains are there on that route (Lville to Washington)?  A couple a day?

Thanks,

ed

[L&N_LCL_SUB]

I don't run the job regular.  Mainly off the extraboard.  The route goes from Louisville across the NS then up the Monon to Mitchell Ind.  We turn the train at Mitchell and head west.  The track conditions are about as good as you can get when last year they replaced some of the old ties with newer old ties (not many I might add).  The monon from L'ville to Mitchell was recently downgraded to 25 mph.  If no improvements are made it will go down to 10 mph sometime next year according to informed sources, which unfortunately seems to be the case. 

There are currently two north to west trains and two back a day from L'ville.  Occasionally there will be an extra train run one way or the other.  The trains dog often for some of the reasons in my last post and sometimes the NS can't handle us.

As to my user name...well it's feast or famine out here.  I knew going into the job about nights weekends, missing holidays etc.  What they don't tell you is about the unions fighting with each other and the railroad. Not getting claims paid.  Management that has been trained to look for any way to fire you or fail you on efficiency testing.  Locomotives that are pure CRAP. etc. etc. etc.  I could go on and on but, I really like railroading.  It's the company that sucks.

[Cheviot Hill]

I don't run the job regular.  Mainly off the extraboard.  The route goes from Louisville across the NS then up the Monon to Mitchell Ind.  We turn the train at Mitchell and head west.  The track conditions are about as good as you can get when last year they replaced some of the old ties with newer old ties (not many I might add).  The monon from L'ville to Mitchell was recently downgraded to 25 mph.  If no improvements are made it will go down to 10 mph sometime next year according to informed sources, which unfortunately seems to be the case. 

There are currently two north to west trains and two back a day from L'ville.  Occasionally there will be an extra train run one way or the other.  The trains dog often for some of the reasons in my last post and sometimes the NS can't handle us.

As to my user name...well it's feast or famine out here.  I knew going into the job about nights weekends, missing holidays etc.  What they don't tell you is about the unions fighting with each other and the railroad. Not getting claims paid.  Management that has been trained to look for any way to fire you or fail you on efficiency testing.  Locomotives that are pure CRAP. etc. etc. etc.  I could go on and on but, I really like railroading.  It's the company that sucks.

Could there be a possibility that CSX will sell the line from Louisville to Mitchell to Indiana Railroad. I heard rumors that CSX wants to shed itself of the line and use the L&I out of Louisville to Seymour and head west from there. They have trackage rights on the L&I from Louisville to Indy. They presently run 3 autorack trains daily from Cincinnati to Louisville via this way. They might be getting all there monies worth out of the Monon route, then sell it to consolidate operations.

[Anonymous]

If Indiana Railroad wants to snatch the (ex-Monon) CSX line from Mitchell, IN - Louisville, if I heard that CSX was planning to sell that line off to them, so much the better for IR.  As it is, CSX has trackage rights on the L&I from Seymour to Louisville as it is, & the ex-Monon route as it were is just a safety valve.  The question is, what will CSX plan to do with the O & M subdivision b/t Mitchell, IN - Seymour since there isn't any eastbound traffic scheduled on that stretch of track?  Oh well, hopefully CSX is making a good call in hopes of consolidating operations.

[samfp1943]

I was in Southern Illinois Sunday - Tuesday and was somewhat surprized by the activity on the old B&O mainline.

A few years ago it was in danger of being abandoned or sold, but on Monday, as I travelled along US 50 to St. Louis it seemed downright busy.

Between 8am and 4pm, I saw or heard 5 CSX trains on the line. One was a westbound empty coal hopper train, with UP engines. The last time I was down there I was told by a signal maintainer that they were going to start running coal trains...I guess that has occurred! Also, there were large piles of removed ties awaiting disposal.

So, I guess my question is this...did I see all or most of the activity in one short period of time? Or has traffic increased on the line? Most of the trains I saw had UP engines, which is no surprize.

Also, perhaps someone can help me with this. At Aviston, Il the westbound coal train held up east of the siding as an eastbound entered the siding. Only after the eastbound in the siding came to a complete stop, did the westbound hopper train start moving. Why?

Wouldnt the signal at the east end (on the main) show "approach"? Is this some sort of safety issue? I was and still am puzzled.

ed

Ed;

    A while back we had a thread going about potential routes in Southern Illinois that would allow the BNSF to bypass problem gateway's, Memphis and St. Louis being two we discussed as possibilities for rerouting traffic.

    What about this? With the NS going to launch into its major East-West Reconfiguration of routes through Virginia, West Wirginia and into Ohio to move "Stacks" with a greater frequency and velocity.

  And with the recent play where CSX caused WATCO to fail to fullfill its ops contract, and threw out WATCO from its operations on the Appalachian&Ohio, in favor of Four Rivers Corp, which happens to own the Evansville Western and controls Paducah and Louisville. I would suspect that while the rebuilding of NS is goiung on it will suffer capacity and velocioty issues all along that line. Not to mention it would be a longer route through Southeastern Ohio and Columbus and on to St. Louis. Would not stringing thses CSX properties together and operating trains over them shorten the route for CSX, not to mention gaining miles and hours while NS is tied up with rebuilding?? What do you or anybody else think about this? 

[MP173]

Sam:

I would have to get a good map and start taking a look at all of those routes you mentioned, which I probably will not have the time to do.

What I do think, is that at some point all these regionals will be in play with alternative routings of freight.  Lines such as the ICE between Chicago & KC or Minneapolis/St Paul, or the Rail America routes.  Even the Indiana Railroad is starting to put together some interesting points on their map.  Suddenly the Indiana Railroad could look an awful lot like the Monon!  Could end up being an escape valve, particularly since they are 85% owned by CSX. 

There are probably far too many holes in the route map for these lines to consolidate, but I wouldnt be surprized that within the next 10 years some interesting things start to happen.

ed

[samfp1943]

Sam:

I would have to get a good map and start taking a look at all of those routes you mentioned, which I probably will not have the time to do.

What I do think, is that at some point all these regionals will be in play with alternative routings of freight.  Lines such as the ICE between Chicago & KC or Minneapolis/St Paul, or the Rail America routes.  Even the Indiana Railroad is starting to put together some interesting points on their map.  Suddenly the Indiana Railroad could look an awful lot like the Monon!  Could end up being an escape valve, particularly since they are 85% owned by CSX. 

There are probably far too many holes in the route map for these lines to consolidate, but I wouldnt be surprized that within the next 10 years some interesting things start to happen.

ed

Those gaps are certainly interesting, and give one pause to see how they are strategically done to interdict routings, to force traffic back to the major lines. 

 That KCS map in the latest[Sept] issue of TRAINS shows just such a situation.  The abandoned KCM&O between Westhorn, OK and Wichita,Ks, and Altus, OK and San Angelo,Tx. 

Or, link that with the line Watco had and scrapped between Coffeyville, Ks, Sedan,Ks and Wichita area. or the Pittsburg, Ks[former Frisco], to Independence,Ks to Wichita,Ks. To name a couple in this area that would have BNSF in a different position, and probably UP as well.

The possibilities are endless to imagine, and play the 'What If' game