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[quote]QUOTE: Originally posted by Colin LC I know that Gunpow wasn't about sleep deprivation or fatigue issues. It was about alcohol and drug use among on duty train crews. I was using it as an example of what it is, a defining moment in American railroad operation and regulation. Engineer certification after being over hundred years a completely inhouse affair became a federal government matter almost overnight. Due to the public outrage and outcry. I mentioned the union Carbide Haz-Mat Incident in Bhopol, India as possible type of incident that can bring again to the RR industry the same kind of outrage and outcry from the public that Ricky Gates brought on. To think that this possibilty is in some realm of fantasy is to delude oneself. Like the possiblity of suicide terrorist using fully fuel jetliners as cruise missiles to slam into American skycrapers. Talk about Socialism vs.Capitalism all you want. Safety is not behold to economic system it is common sense. If the RR don't self regulate now they open up themselves to the imposition of regulation maybe over regulation from an angry public balance sheets be damned. Just like the hubris of RR management of the 19th Century brought about the the draconian ICC. Rgemed, I know that scheduling is not a panacea but a step in right direction. Again look at the Aviation industry! Yes I know the passenger is loosing ton and tons of money per day but the freight side is quite robust. Ask UPS and FedEx. Rgemed, Why do some railroaders think that they are the only profession that does not work 9 to 5. I am a "Narco Ranger" for the NYPD and today I will have worked over 24 hours straight w/o sleep doing arrest processing. So I know about "lifestyle"! But that no excuse for working safely and going home to your families in one piece. [/quote] Colin- You need to get beyond a glib understanding of how things work in the RR business if you want to truly understand what is going on. First, although locomotive engineers are now certified pursuant to FRA regulations (49 CFR 240 et seq.) it is the railroads that actually submit THEIR certification plans to FRA and it is the RRs, not ther FRA or other government agencies that actually certify their engineers. An engineer's card is NOT like a driver's license. It is valid on one railroad only, absent agreements with other RRs. So, other than having to comply with the letter of the certification regulation and comply with the drug and alcohol testing regs things haven't actually changed that much. Second, there have already been some pretty major chemical spills in the railroad businerss in the last few years such as the CSX spills in New Orleans and the explosion of a CN gasoline train near Montreal. Or a little further back the derailment on the then SP that resulted in the dumping of a whole tank car of herbicide into the beautiful pristine American River in Northern California, an inlet for the City of Sacramento's public water supply. These incidents, barely made national news, much less turned into a serious public outcry. In a word, you are deluding yourself if you think that this sort of incident will create much real public outcry or change outside of its happening in a major city. Bhopal (correct spelling) is a completely different scenario. There, much of the outcry was about how multinational corporations were taking advantage of the poorer countries with more lax safety regulation to produce profits going to their pockets in the first world. This is hardly the type of outcry one would expect from a sleep deprivation incident. One last example, in Syracuse, New York over the last three years or so there have been two major incidents involving Amtrak Empire Corridor trains. In the first incident the Amtrak train rear ended a CSX freight near Dewitt Yard. Although there were numerous injuries there were no fatalities. The cause of the incident was found to be the Amtrak Engineer having a diabetic "incident". In a second incident less than two years later, an Amtrak Engineer actually fell asleep and ran through at least two signals and an interlocking switch. Only quick action by a CSX freight crew approaching from the opposite direction on the same track avoided a head on collision by only 400 feet. Despite this, there was only a local public outcry and calls for investigation of rail safety from local elected officials including Congressman Walsh. After a few months, everything died down again... It is easy to say from the comfort of a government job that economics don't matter. That is one of the major problems with NY. Government keeps growing and keeps on finding ways to fund ever larger public payrolls as business fless the ever higher taxes needed to support it. The only thing saving NYS from collapse is Wall Street and the tax revenues (and fines) it generates. Upstate has lost much of its industry and can't hope to regain it under the existing regime. Look for more railroad abandonments in NY as a result. You can't legislate safety. It has to be built from within. LC
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