Crash in Rochelle

[Anonymous]

Hi, all - first post (I think) --

Here's my two cents: If you look at the time stamps on the photos, you can see the grinder was way too close to the diamonds for about two minutes.

7.46p - the grinder is over the westbount track
7.47p - the grinder is still over the westbound track, no collision yet
7.48p - collision with stuff everywhere. the bnsf may or may not be stopped at this point.

ponderables:
1. how many guys crew the grinder?
2. the grinder was darn close to the diamonds before the bnsf got there...it had to be...i wonder if the bnsf crew saw it and got nervous
3. why was the grinder so close to the diamond for so long? it stands to reason the grinder crew knew they were past the red signal and over the diamond...for a minute or two...and didn't back up?

grinder malfunction?

[CShaveRR]

I have not seen Dispatcher 12's screen, but have heard him tell UP crews that "BN's got the diamond blocked." It probably shows track occupancy of some sort.

[tree68]

Maybe he's watching the webcam...

[BaltACD]

If the Grinder was operating as a 'Train' then signal rules would apply and have been violated.

If the Grinder was operating as an 'OTE' (On Track Equipment) it would have been operating on 'track car' permissions and authorities. At each railroad crossing at grade there are Special Instructions that apply for OTE's to get safely through the crossing. Obviously these were not complyed with.

[Anonymous]

Just curious as to how the Rochelle interlocking is used for track car movement? There must be some way for one railroad to hold traffic so that the other can move track equipment over the diamond (most track machines do not shunt the signal circuits). I can see a lot of human error things that could creep into this incident as well. Most times a track car moves on out of service track and can ignore certain signals, but not usually interlockings. In the case of the rail grinder it does shunt the circuits so how could the 'automatic interlocking' allow the BNSF train over the diamond?

[Junctionfan]

I don't think I like the whole automatic interlocking unless dispatchers can see through their tracking screen on what is going on. I think that BNSF and UP should be able to keep on eye out on trains from either railroad for at least a block away and call ahead to each other to let them know if something is coming. I know it rather defeats the purpose of automatic interlocking but I don't trust human error. That could have easily been a railgrinder hitting an anhydrous ammonia car and by looking at the surrounding area, there are houses near by.

[spbed]

That is interesting that maybe the rail grinder would not trigger the automatic interlocking. If he was operating on "train" orders then for sure at least the UPRR dispatcher would know of his movement. It is just like a bronco that is on the rail he needs the dispatcher permission to go on the track s & start moving as well. If you look at the cam you can clearly see the signal bridges on the UPRR which hold the absolute signals that the rail grinder should not have passed. The BNSF signal bridges are not in the webcam pix but they to hold absolute signals. [:D][:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PCWhalen

Just curious as to how the Rochelle interlocking is used for track car movement? There must be some way for one railroad to hold traffic so that the other can move track equipment over the diamond (most track machines do not shunt the signal circuits). I can see a lot of human error things that could creep into this incident as well. Most times a track car moves on out of service track and can ignore certain signals, but not usually interlockings. In the case of the rail grinder it does shunt the circuits so how could the 'automatic interlocking' allow the BNSF train over the diamond?

[dehusman]

Junctionfan:
In states like Illinois, some dispatchers might have 20 or 30 interlockings on their territory. Having them try and keep up with all their traffic AND the traffic on 10 or 20 other railroad's lines would be unrealistic, especially since there is NOTHING they can do to affect the movement of the trains on the other railroads. Think of the time wasted having to call 10 or 20 other dispatchers for EVERY train you operate across the railroad. There are literally thousands of automatic interlockings across the US and they all (including Rochelle) operate just fine. Even at a manual interlocking, where the dispatcher can see both sides, the dispatcher would not have been able to prevent the collision.

Spbed:
The rail grinder would activate the signal system.

Dave H.

[spbed]

Thanks for the confirm that is what I though [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Junctionfan:
In states like Illinois, some dispatchers might have 20 or 30 interlockings on their territory. Having them try and keep up with all their traffic AND the traffic on 10 or 20 other railroad's lines would be unrealistic, especially since there is NOTHING they can do to affect the movement of the trains on the other railroads. Think of the time wasted having to call 10 or 20 other dispatchers for EVERY train you operate across the railroad. There are literally thousands of automatic interlockings across the US and they all (including Rochelle) operate just fine. Even at a manual interlocking, where the dispatcher can see both sides, the dispatcher would not have been able to prevent the collision.

Spbed:
The rail grinder would activate the signal system.

Dave H.