.

[Jackflash]

Dan, I guess the biggest problem with the
hi-tech new locos, both EMD and GE is technology
for technologys sake. A lot of the "improvments"
on new hi-tech locos were not necessary, one that
comes to mind is the electronic air brake in the
cab, the computer screens are ok, but there
wasnt anything wrong with the analog gauges
if the computer allowed a proper operator
interface it would be a lot better, but there
is very little the engineer can change in the
operation of the loco through the computer
so its of very little use to the engineer.
With the older locos if something goes wrong
with a gauge or meter you hardly knew it,
you could just keep on going, now let a 59 cent
capacitor short out in the air brake system
you "aint" going no where. jackflash

[sooblue]

didn't the computer technology come about mainly because of the need to control emissions?
Than after the computer proved it's worth and gained capacity the engine mfgs. thought "we have a lot of computer power here lets put it to use"
It would be par for the course. Thats what happened in my line of work. Now instead of changing an "old" radio tube or a switch I have to get out a book with a logic ladder and figure out what the heck just went wrong. First and second generation industrial computers don't self diagnose.
mike

[Anonymous]

Technology for tech sake hits us everywhere. I am one who doesn't like the "Pac-Man" cockpits of anything, especially airplanes, cars, locos.

[sooblue]

I like the usefullness of a computer. I remember what it was like in winter with a car that had a carborator. Sometimes just sitting in your car thinking about starting it would flood the engine.
I haven't had a flooded engine since 1987.
I like how you can use a computer to do more than one thing at a time, but when having a computer involved makes more work that's when I pull the plug.
mike

[Anonymous]

POOCHES would fire up fine with out computer's.

[wabash1]

cry me a river.... spoken like a managment type person. most every managment person on the railroad is out of collage and has no idea what it takes to do the job. but they are quick to fire the labor that makes the company money. you say look at the big picture . why doesnt managment do the same. they dont care about productivity. safety 1st.. talk 5 min on giving someone 3 step protection when he is standing 1 car from the engine while 2 other crews are trying to switch also. and this whole time wasted the job could have been done, and gone. what is next shut the engines down drain them take the reverser out and stand on the ground by the engines . so he can see that its ok to knock a hand brake off. oh i forgot before i can get off the engine the fra requires 100% hand brakes on the engines ... i need a raise in pay .... then you wonder why we have it out for management. im not bashing you this time. and i didnt have it easy either but when you try and make the company profitable and not waste money and they make rules that cost money. and its obvious. are we to keep silent. your thoughts on that are welcome.

[Jackflash]

Listen folks, this guy knows what he is talking
about! Been there, done that, almost reminds
me of the military, the most qulified people
have the least input, the least qulified people
are in charge. jackflash

[Jackflash]

Listen folks, this guy knows what he is talking
about! Been there, done that, almost reminds
me of the military, the most qulified people
have the least input, the least qulified people
are in charge. jackflash

[Anonymous]

I sure hope EMD is not doomed! Frankly, like it or not, there is a REASON this is happening. As a EMD fan, I have to admit GE must be building a better product than EMD, or this wouldn't be happening. It sure pains me to see more and more ugly C44W's on trains. They lack the he-man appearance of the EMD widecabs. And the GE chug-chug-chug sound pales in comparison to the whining RPM buildup on an EMD. Just watching at trackside, I don't know how ANYONE would pick a GE as a favorite over an EMD unit.

[Anonymous]

According to the news section of Trains.com NS just signed a letter of intent to purchase from EMD 50 more SD70Ms,so the big E ain't dead yet........

[Anonymous]

Truth is there are some posibilities out there that would help business. Time will tell. The days of LaGrange cranking out 8 units a day are over. Big changes coming to EMD. Hopefully for the better. GE is better in some departments. But it is more about price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And who makes the buying decisions today????? Not the mechanical department at railroads!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Aha! Someone nailed it at last!

Heck, BNSF loves their EMD 70MACs, but guess what? They allready burned most of their cash for the C44 when they had the "power crunch" a few years back, and GE could deliver more units of the same HP faster and cheaper.

Consqeunce is the 70MAC with it's spendy pricetag doesn't get purchased as much as it ought to.

Face it, both GE and EMD produce good product, (mostly,) but produce different products suitable for different uses. Like the GEs of past, the new AC4400 and C44 will likley not last more than 20 years on average, but they aren't meant to. They have built in obsolescence with the intention of having them returned to GE and replaced by new power, preferrably also from GE. Much the same philosophy as with modern autos....

Meanwhile GM-EMD builds a product (at least with the 70 series) that is sturdier and richer, but which has a huge associated price and almost no marketing genius.

Anyway enough rambling. Point is GE was succesful because they created a largely decent product (C44) with excellent marketing, while EMD created a largely excellent product (70 series) with ****y marketing.

[wabash1]

i made the statement sometime back that i recieved from a good sorce that ns was tired of the ge units breaking down. and was going to start buying emd units. it dont take long for the bean counters to look at the bottom line shrink when you are putting out good ca***o repair a junk product.

[Anonymous]

J
word out on the street or shops is the NS is quite mad at GE due to promises not kept. That is one of the big reasons they are buying some 70's. Unlike most of the 70's produced here recently. These 70's will have control stands designed so the locomotive may be run in either direction. Pre-safety cab type.... After they get the 50, maybe the will order more.

[wabash1]

the thing is when it takes 4 G.E. engines to get 1 train across the road and only 2 emd its clear which is better. and the word was out last year about the ge engines and not buying more. ns has 1948 emd not including the new 70s they are buying, and 1557 ge. not sure how many of them are running.

[Anonymous]

FACE IT....................GE LOCOMOTIVES SUCK!
[bow]BNSF[bow]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

the thing is when it takes 4 G.E. engines to get 1 train across the road and only 2 emd its clear which is better. and the word was out last year about the ge engines and not buying more. ns has 1948 emd not including the new 70s they are buying, and 1557 ge. not sure how many of them are running.

the GE AC4400s have been flying off the shelf lately, they now make up the majority of CPs fleet.