coal cars

[Mookie]

I have a question from a reluctant trainwatcher who goes train watching because he loves his wife.
He asked me a question I have no answer for, so I will ask the forum and I am sure someone will give me an answer for him.

We watch a lot of coal trains and some of the aluminum cars are marked "radiant heat only". This brought up the fact that we live in the ice belt and have a lot of ice storms. If a coal car is full of coal and has to sit for some time in an ice storm and collects ice on top, then goes for dumping (these are the ones with bottom release)and there is a pretty thick collection of ice on the top, do these cars have to be warmed for awhile to get rid of the ice or does just the act of dumping them break up these sheets of ice?

I think this was his question - I would rather find out about the radiant heating, but said I would ask my experts.

Thanx

[Anonymous]

Many times coal cars have to be heated to allow the dumping of the coal. It is more of a problem for bottom dumpers than the cars that are turned over. Aluminum must be heated with care so as not to damage the car, hense the radiant heat only.

[CShaveRR]

First of all, congratulations (it's a real treat when my spouse accompanie me on a train-watching foray)!

A lot of unloading points have thawing sheds. I've seen pictures of these things (they're almost like ovens through which the trains pass), but have no idea how effective they are--i.e., whether a train moving at unloading speed spends enough time passing through the thawer to loosen the ice's hold on the coal.

This is what's meant by radiant heat, though...as opposed to using torches or whatever to apply heat to specific parts of the car. You see evidence of that being done on occasion, and it isn't always pretty.

[Anonymous]

I was fortunate enough to tour a power plant served by the BN and went through the unloading shed. On the entrance end there are sets of wires to thaw out the cars, they look alot like a toaster's insides lined up in a row on both sides of the track, and if I remember correctly they have to unload the train slower because of the heating/thawing process.

[CShaveRR]

That sounds like the pictures I saw, all right. But hoppers don't need dumping sheds, so they must have a separate shed for their "toasters".

[Mookie]

That is very interesting and I appreciate the information. I took it all home and after he read all of it and we discussed it, he seemed satisfied. I guess it is one of those small things in railroading that you don't always think about. Now if he comes up with another small question, maybe I will consider him a convert!

[wabash1]

jenny during times of rain freezing rain and snow this all melts down thru the coal its just not the top. the cars that are empty waiting to be loaded are frozen to so the ice is all the way thru the cars. the heat sheds only do a minimum job of thawing. the speeds at which we unload has nothing to do with the thawing process we do things at the same speed. and most of the time the cars dont empty all the way. so you have coal in cars both ways to and from power plant.

[Anonymous]

Ice does not just form on top, but the coal freezes together, and most of the car can not be dumped. A Local Power plant used to recieve BNSF coal, but had to use a missive hydrolic shaker to free the coal. Besides beating up their cars, it was a hassle and slowed time for dumping. Coal is a more sensitive cargo than most people think. If left sitting in the heat for too long, it will start to spontaniously combust. However, left in the cold after a snow, or freezing after a storm, will cause the coal to freeze into clumps, making it impossible to dump. Hope this answers his question.

-Brian

[Mookie]

Brian - that is very interesting. So they use the radiant heating sheds to warm up the coal so they can dump it? We have lots of ice - almost more than snow here in Lincoln - and I know that coal has to be a mess after it has been here.

We have a lot of heat too, and never even thought about coal being combustible after sitting too long. Well, you are close by - so you know the midwest weather!