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[quote user="tree68"]Does it really matter if a railroader has experience with Rule 6.21? The crux of the matter is whether the railroad or the railroaders actually involved considered the water "high." If they did not, the rule simply did not apply.[/quote] For the course of this discussion it would be nice to get an insight from a railroader who is confronted with these situations more often to understand when and why or why not a railroad deems a flooding dangerous. I looked for information that could have been available to BNSF if they looked for. I drew my conclusions from what I found and my knowledge and experience as civil engineer. These conclusions might be wrong. But nothing has convinced me yet, neither way. [quote user="tree68"]I don't have time at the moment to research chapter and verse in NORAC, but there is a similar rule there.[/quote] In quick search of NORAC, CSX rules, and NS rules I didn't find a similar rule only a rule regarding Reporting of unusual occurences. But I may have overlooked something. [quote user="tree68"]Those local railroaders are the ones who run the line on a daily basis. If they didn't consider the waters at the time to meet the criteria of Rule 6.21, why should we?[/quote] Perhaps because there was an accident (caused by whatever) and some evidence that can lead to the conclusion that there might have been a misjudgement? I'm not a railroader and I don't believe that decisions by railroaders are automatically right. I would like to understand the criteria a railroad uses in such situations. [quote user="tree68"]I've posited that high water was normally no big deal at Doon. I still hold that opinion.[/quote] OK, I differ. Is a high water above the Major Flood Stage level and at Rock Valley just 1.5 ft below record levels unusual or not? It looks like BNSF operated as usual but in the light of the accident with the resulting oil spill it must be allowed to question this. The information about UP's procedures might help a lot. Regards, Volker
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