BNSF-UP Cajon Pass-Hesperia Good News!

[K. P. Harrier]

For those that have avoided the north side of Cajon Pass (railroad east) in Southern California because of the torturous dirt Summit Valley Road that was guaranteed to loosen dental fillings, the roadway stretch that follows the tracks from just past Summit to Hesperia is now totally paved! It is like a whole new world to keep an eye on trains.

(Just watch out for the couple of three or four foot sections were flying saucers apparently landed and took pavement samples.)

[Modelcar]

...Slightly different question on Cajon....What is the ruling up grade on the steepest side..? And how long is the grade...?

[spbed]

You know if you follow Hesperia Rd eastward from the summitt it begins to the parallel the tracks & their are places where you can get some great shots of trains strung out in both directions if you like pix of trains going up & downhill?

[lechee]

Could you be a little more specific on driving instructions ? I would like to drive that area the next time I'm in california ,
Thank You

[spbed]

Yes you get off the Freeway at the exit where there is I think a Motel 6 + some others in Hesperia. At the exit ramp you are going to go right about 1 or2 miles. At the Walgrens make another right (that is Hesperia Road) just follow that until you reach a underpass that is about 2 more miles from the right turn at Walgrens you will be about halfway between the bottom & top of the hill. Their is also a signal looking down hill that will give you a fair time warning of downhills. Uphills you can see the headlite or hear then struggling against the grade. Their is plenty of places to park out of the way & get some good shots if you just like trains going up & downhill. Some of the UPRR trains have end helpers also. On the BNSF side so far I have not seen any helpers. I usually go at 1st lite & stay a hour or so & within that period I have seen 6/8 trains total. Myself I am more into interlockings so Dagget/Colton are more my speed as you see trains their at speed or close to it + you see UPRR trains coming & going off the BNSF line to & from the BNSF Cajon Line. Also Riverside is another of my favorites. I wrote to the Chamber of Commerces of Riverside & Colton & they sent me street maps. You can always Mapquest it. Query Hesperia Rd in Hesperia & when it comes up reduce it to street & then keep pushing east & you will see where Hesperia & the RR tracks meet. Good luck & enjoy!

[spbed]

Correct should read off the UPRR Sunset line to the BNSF Cajon line

[Anonymous]

Two reasons I like the pavement. 1) Better traction and a painted center line should help keep those overspeed bozos in their beat-up pick-ups from drifting out of their half of the road. 2) No more ruined shots where my long tele is about to snap an eastbound coiling down through the curves at Lugo and road dust from half a dozen non-carpooling desert-dwelling L.A. Basin-bound commuters comes billowing across the entire scene.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Slightly different question on Cajon....What is the ruling up grade on the steepest side..? And how long is the grade...?

QM:

Ruling grade eastward on BNSF is 2.2% on No. 1 track, 3.0% on No. 2 track. The No. 2 track is only used eastward as an exception. Ruling grade westward on BNSF is 1.6%. The former SP Palmdale Cut-off has a ruling grade eastward of 2.2% as well.

The grade is long enough to matter. The 2.2% ruling grade eastward on BNSF begins in the vicinity of milepost 76 and extends to the summit, milepost 55.9, or about 20 miles. The 3.0 percent on the No. 2 track begins in the vicinity of milepost 62 and extends to the vicinity of milepost 57, or about five miles. That's also long enough to matter, it's not a momentum grade by any means!

If you need more detail, I can probably hunt up the CDs with the current track charts. They're in this mess somewhere.

OS

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Correct should read off the UPRR Sunset line to the BNSF Cajon line

I am not sure what you are saying here. So there is no confusion, the Sunset Route (the part from West Colton to Tucson was called the East Line in SP's 1989 timetable) does not go over Cajon.

[spbed]

Yes that is correct the Sunset line does not go over Cajon but does cross the Cajon line at Colton where UPRR trains transfer from the Sunset route to the BNSF Cajon line or reverse & then either enter or exit the Cajon line onto their own tracks at Riverside about 10 miles from Colton

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Correct should read off the UPRR Sunset line to the BNSF Cajon line

I am not sure what you are saying here. So there is no confusion, the Sunset Route (the part from West Colton to Tucson was called the East Line in SP's 1989 timetable) does not go over Cajon.

[Modelcar]

O S: Thanks for the data on the gradients re: Cajon area...That is for sure enough to matter....I expected it to be significiant but the 3% really surprises for main line stuff....That is pretty rough and for that distance makes it even more impressive.
Remember reading of realignment work in that area I believe it was several times in the past years.....so must have been even worse in the past.

[Anonymous]

QM: The most recent line change on AT&SF was at Summit in 1972, to reduce curvature, particularly to eliminate a troublesome 10-degree curve. Before that, you'd have to reach back to 1913, when the 2.2% eastward track was constructed. I think what you recall reading is of very minor projects. However, BNSF is now beginning work on a third main track from San Bernardino to Summit, which will essentially lie on the same alignment as the current eastward (2.2%) track.

Interesting that what's become one of the most important routes in North America -- shared by UP for its LA&SL traffic -- still has a 3.0% grade in it, even if it's primarily downhill. Had you surveyed the industry 100 years ago and asked them if one of the most important routes a century later would have a 3 percent grade, they would have told you that would be ridiculous.

OS

[Modelcar]

O S: Interesting stuiff....and maintaining the 3% is a bit strange in today's world if it is possible to soften it a bit.....I'm guessing that may be involved in recent years of downhill run a ways....
In my home area of Pennsylvania on the S&C branch there is a 3% grade for a short distance {and sharp radius curves}, and in years past it was a heavy coal hauler up out of the valley from Johnstown to Somerset and on to Rockwood to the B&O main line...and it required 2 and 3 engines..{steam}, to bring coal drags up out of there. Main line 3% grades is heavy hauling. But interesting.
A good comparison is the original Pennsylvania Turnpike {built approx. on an old RR ROW}, has a maximum gradient of 3%. {But original RR would have limited it to 2%}...Just being more circutious.

[Willy2]

I have a question about the 3% grade. Wouldn't all of the heavy braking of trains going down hill wear out the tracks and roadbed quickly? How often does the railroad have to check the tracks and make repairs?

[Modelcar]

....Willy: I'll leave it to the railroaders to answer your question with tech specs. but any train activity over the rails will produce wear. Suppose braking could could cause some extra wear especially if the track has sharp radius curves to wear against the rail sides from the flanges. Of course we're not considering any wheels to be in the sliding mood...which would cause extreme damage.

[Anonymous]

Willy: Excellent question. The longitudinal force of braking is transmitted into the track structure, and the track structure must transmit it to the ground. It requires a good track struture to do this every day under heavy load, and not fail. Where you'll see it fail is that the alignment on curves will try to creep outward, gauge will try to widen in curves, and the rail will try to creep downhill. If any of these are allowed to progress too far, there will be accelerated wear rates of rail, ties, and fasteners, and alignment will begin to change from what it should be. If those progress too far, there will eventually be a failure of the track underneath a train, and the train will derail. The solution is to pay close attention to the track, and that's what railroads do. All major routes, including this, are inspected visually at least once daily, if not twice to three times daily, and conditions that will eventually cause problems are noted at once, and decisions are made to shorten maintenance intervals, change track materials, or resolve the problem in some way.

In high-wear situations, railroads will upgrade track materials to something tougher. In areas prone to wide-gauge, such as sharp curves with large longitudinal and lateral forces, railroads will install concrete ties in place of wood, or in places where concrete ties won't work, they'll go to a resilient fastening system such as Pandrol clips instead of traditional cut spikes. Bigger and tougher rail is installed in high-wear situations. More attention is paid to a proper rail-head profile and removal of surface defects, through rail grinding. (Surface defects such as corrugation create impact loads which are transmitted into the subgrade and can cause subgrade failures and undesirable alignment variations.) More attention is paid to ballast cleaning, tamping, and maintaining track geometry. Track geometry is actually a very sophisticated science, and changes that are invisible to the casual onlooker have major effects, such as where the spiral into a curve begins; the length of the spiral and where it begins in relation to the superelevation; the form of the spiral; whether the outside rail is elevated or the inside rail depressed, and how much, and where; the exact gauge that is set -- sometimes it's widened slightly; etc. Software in tampers and other track machinery is set to obtain the proper track geometry for the particular situation.

The biggest influence of all is drainage: the three most important things in track are #1 drainage, #2 drainage, and #3 drainage. Improper drainage will destroy track alignment and material very quickly, and the speed limit must be lowered to keep trains on the track. All the concrete ties, clean crushed granite ballast, and 141-lb. rail in the world are worthless on top of a poorly drained subgrade.

Maintenance intervals will vary greatly based on tonnage, track materials in place, climate, and other independent variables such as the availability of track time, men, machines, money, etc. Each railroad sets it accordingly, and a great deal of the management time is spent deciding which is the most cost-effective solution.

OS

[Willy2]

Wow, some really interesting information! Thanks for the info O.S.

[Anonymous]

You're welcome. Tomorrow, a real track expert will point out all my errors and omissions. I think there's one or two I've seen in the forum.[;)]

OS

[Modelcar]

...All that was intesting O S....and like your attitude of it all.

[K. P. Harrier]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

However, BNSF is now beginning work on a third main track from San Bernardino to Summit, which will essentially lie on the same alignment as the current eastward (2.2%) track.

OS:

It is my understanding a third track will ONLY be built someday between Summit and Cajon along the present 2.2% alignment.

A future third track between Devore and Verdemont, as well as the present new third and fourth tracks between Verdemont and Ono, and the third track between Ono and Baseline, are for traffic waiting to setout in San Bernardino, though any track may be used at the dispatcher’s discretion.

At Verdemont, preparatory work for the widening of Palm Avenue, including positioning of crossing gate devices, indicate there will ONLY be TWO tracks over the grade crossing, and NOT three.

Thus, the Summit-Cajon project, and the Devore-Baseline improvement, appears to be separate and unrelated, and to fulfill different objectives.

[Anonymous]

K. P., thanks for the observations. These reveal some details that weren't imparted to me in recent meetings.

OS

[FThunder11]

I want to travel that road to see the pass, but I've never even been to California

[spbed]

The SPRR had a 3rd track over the Cajon pass also which went from Colton thru the pass to Palmdale. Naturally the UPRR acquired this main line track when itacquired the SPRR. The UPRR then built a connector from Silverton (near the summit) to the 3rd track that used to be SPRR to take advantage of the smaller grade. The other end of the connector is in the Devoe area so if as a example a WBer was transferred from the BNSF to the former SPRR at Silverton it then can reenter the BNSF at the bottom of the grade. In the reverse a EBer would switch from the BNSF to the former UPRR at devoe & exit at Silverton. The BNSF does not have trackage rights over this former SPRR main line track over the pass.

[spbed]

Well I live in SE on the Atlantic Ocean which is as far from Western Calif as you can get & whenever I get vacation time I insure to include some good railfanning locations. This late May & early June I am planning a SLC/Ogden/Pocatello/Green River/Granger UPRR expedition including the 2 canyons the UPRR passes thru in eastern Utah.

QUOTE: Originally posted by FThunder11

I want to travel that road to see the pass, but I've never even been to California