Anyone remember the Ligonier Valley RR....?

[Modelcar]

The Ligonier Valley RR is history now for about 50 years....Anyone remember and can make some comments about it...? The great cut stone Depot was used by the Pennsylvania Game Commission but is now comepletely gutted inside and is being renovated for use of some School Offices of the area. I sure hope it is put back together to it's original appearance. It is a beautiful building and still has the long train shed behind it.

QM

[Anonymous]

What part of Pennsylvania?

[Anonymous]

southwesthern...about 50 or so miles from pittsburgh pa... in westmorland county...
i know a little bit about it..from what a few friends that are in my modle rr club... the right of way use to go from latrobe pa (hooked up with the prr thier...) when you drive down rt 30 westbound..your driving on the old rr right of way... you can still see a loading tipple of some kind..i think it was to load stone from a stone quairy right above the tipple.. this is located on rt 30 west... the rail road was owned by i think it was but dont quote me on this... a mellon... and the mellons are still living around the area... this is all i can think of off the top of my head...

[Modelcar]

Thanks for the comments....Yes, the ROW as you describe is correct...and the RR had a branch that connected Ligonier to Wilpen to some Coal mines in that area. Wilpen is generally north of Ligonier. Back in the early part of the 20th century the road connected to PW&S which was generally a Logging road but really did have some passenger trains that went up and over Laurel Hill Mt. and down the east side and into Somerset.

To the question where is it....Ligonier is located on Rt. 30 and about 50 miles east of Pittsburgh.

The LVRR ROW cut right through the center of Idelwild park and there was a tiny RR station in the park that passengers could use...In the latter years of operation the RR used a "Doodlebug" to run between Latrobe and Ligonier.

QM

[Anonymous]

if you look around the loyal hanna crick... you can see some of the old peers..and embutmets in some places...where i would cross the crick... mostly arould the idelwild park area... i havnt been back that way for some time...... but i do rember seeing old peers here and thier... they might be gone now do to the loyal hanna flooding and what not... the wife and i will be going to idelwild at the end of the mouth.. if i get a chance ill take a look arould the area and see what is still reconizable as the right of way... besides that part that is us route 30.....

[Anonymous]

oh i almost forgot....some of the old rail road is still in latrobe...where it hooks up with the old prr... they wye tracks are still in..and i think the rail gets used from time to time by norfolk southern to service latrobe steel... if you wanted to find the old tracks... just go to the latrobe rail road station....down the road from it is an ns office of some kind...the local ns road switcher works out of latrobe..and the wye on both sides of the office building...if your in latrobe and you go down ligonier street... the tracks you run next to are the old lvrr tracks...

[Modelcar]

Thanks Gary for adding some more LVRR data....It is fading into history now as it sure has been quite a while since it ended. Last year on another forum, I had a letter from a lady from Florida and she sent along a newspaper cliping indicating her Father was the engineer on the last passenger train to run on the Ligonier to Latrobe and return route. I don't have the info in front of me now, but believe it was Aug. of 1952.

I visited the site of the former Depot just a few weeks ago and was shocked to see it disrupted by interior renovation...Pennsylvania Game Commision has moved out and it is now going to serve as some offices in the school network of the area. I will visit Ligonier again the last of July and do some more looking.

You can see a great picture of a LVRR steam engine sitting on a storage track across the street from what used to be the round house...The picture can be accessed by going to www.northeast.railfan.net.......That will put you in position to pull up the picture which was taken in 1940.

Several years ago I took a look a few miles out north of Ligonier near Rt. 271 and yes, you can still see the ROW where the route to Wilpen was located. It is several hundered yards generally west of the road. Time is gradually molding it into the landscape.

At one time...The route had some Pennsylvania special trains come in on it to functions at Rector area and Idlewild. I understand there was a multiple storage track for such trains to be parked at the generally north end of Idlewild during the day as it's passengers enjoyed a day at the Park.

QM

[Anonymous]

Hm. Not John, but his grandfather here.

The piers and abutments in the Loyalhanna Creek are the remains of a siding which crossed the creek a mile or less below Long Bridge. It was built to move heavy equipment to a gas well which was drilled there sometime between the World Wars.

The story I heard was that at the time it was the deepest gaswell in the state/country/world (choose one), but that the gas contained so much hydrogen sulfide that it was unusable.

Anyway, the plate gitder bridge was still in place following WW2, as I saw it on my few trips on the Liggie Valley.

According to the 1915 Poor's Manual of Railroads, all the directors and all but one of the officers of the LV were Mellons. The one non-Mellon was the Superintendent. Yep, the same Mellons as Mellon Bank, Gulf Oil, Koppers Co.

Bob Netzlof

[Modelcar]

Bob....At the time you mentioned riding the line, were they using the lone coach behind steam they had or the Doodlebug...?

QM

[Anonymous]

My earliest recollections of the LV begin around 1943 or 44. At that time they had a "doodle bug", very light construction. Brill? It is said to have had a mechanical transmission and maybe even a gear shift. There was also a matching trailer.

That, except for special occasions, was the "passenger train". Special occasions were: Latrobe School Picnic at Idlewild, ALCo plant picnic, and maybe a couple other similar events. On those days, the LV would borrow 2 or 3 mP54 coaches from the PRR and run a "real" passenger train, consisting of those cars plus their own bright red mP54 pulled by one of their locomotives.

Later, somewhere around 1946 or 47, I observed the doodlebug pulling a gondola loaded with ties. Then, if I remember correctly, the dodlebug was replaced by a locomotive pulling the single coach. Rumor had it that the effort of moving the gondola had burned out the clutch on the doodlebug.

A few weeks later, a bigger, diesel-powered "doodlebug" showed up and was used as noted above until the end in 1952.

In the mid-40's, not long after then end of WW2 LV obtained an ex-Army 0-6-0 switcher, and later and ex-Southern 2-8-0. By then, the 2-8-0's they had up until then had given up the ghost.

Bob Netzlof

[Modelcar]

I can understand very easy if the first Doodlebug was a light Brill type car possibly with a Winton gas engine and very possibly would have had a manual transmission....And, if it was pulling a loaded gondola loaded as you said the clutch would have been over worked.

I have a picture in front of me now and the Doodlebug is sitting at the Depot in Ligonier headed west, so it is ready for the Latrobe run. The grass is growing up around the two tracks there in that area so it was probably near the 50's as things were winding down. This car has a protuding radiator on the front of it with the typical black and white stripes at a diagonal across the front of the vehicle. This car looks somewhat on the light side so perhaps it was the first one. I remember the sound it made...kinda a loud "cracking" exhaust noise. Don't know if I remember of the sound of a diesel unit. I watched their action coming into the Depot many times but never rode on it. Sure wish I would have done so. In the 40's I was young and visiting there in the summer and not in charge of my destiny at such things. But my memory is still strong on some of the sites and smells of what we're talking about.

QM...[formally of Somerset Co.]

[Anonymous]

hey bob...its gary from the wsme...had no idea you where online and use this forum..lol hows retirement treating you

[Anonymous]

Sounds like that's the new, improved doodlebug. The older small one had rounded ends, a low arched roof, and no stripes.

Bob Netzlof

[Modelcar]

I have another photo of the LV Doodlebug as it is at the Latrobe Depot but I will have to dig it up....On that photo I remember you can see it's ID number....Maybe it was 1150, but not sure. I will see if I can find it and confirm...

QM

[Modelcar]

I have found my 2nd Doodlebug picture and it was taken at the Latrobe Depot. It appears to be a heavier vehicle than the other I described above. This one does have squared off corners at the front and the engine cooling radiator is flush with the front of the body work and...it does have the diagonal painted warning stripes on the front of it. One headlight at the center top. The caption under the picture does refer it to a gas-electric....and I was correct, the number of it is 1150 and the photo was taken in 1948. It has the old time marker lights at the top of all four corners. It appears to have some cooling device on the roof above the operators cab. A pair of horns and fairly good sized bell above the operator's cab as well.

QM

[Anonymous]

Quentin:

Yes, the second picture is the new one, so the first picture must be the old one.

And what a relief to me. I've been pondering all morning "Did the old doodlebug have stripes or no?" "Did you speak too soon last night?". It has been 50+ years.

You had said "black and white stripes". If I recall correctly, they were yellow and black.

Gary:

Yep, 'tis I. Getting along getting along up here in the Higher Elevations North of Interstate 80.

Bob Netzlof

[Modelcar]

Bob....I never realized they had 2 different Doodlebugs until you mentioned the circumstances why it probably needed to be replaced. I never had these 2 pictures side by side before and out to compare so I didn't note they were not the same. The one in the first picture does look "puny" compared to the 2nd one.

You sure could be correct on the color as these pic's are black and white. 50 + years does make a difference....I'm finding that out more and more these days. But I cherish my memories of being around Ligonier those days and especially my recollect of the railroad activities at those times and even remember one could get Ice cream at Tommy Cohn's [sp?], store right east of the Depot...

QM