It seems that virtually every time I see a train with loaded steel coil cars, someone comments on how heavy those cars are. Aren't they (loaded) about the same as other loaded cars? The maximum weight of many cars is about 268k pounds. Aren't cars like covered hoppers built to hold enough grain to get to that limit? The same for gondolas and other cars? It would seem odd to have railroads haul multiple partially filled cars (carrying the same product from the same shipper). If steel coil cars are so much heavier, how can they use the same 4-axle trucks as other cars with the same gross rating?
Perry BabinIt seems that virtually every time I see a train with loaded steel coil cars, someone comments on how heavy those cars are. Aren't they (loaded) about the same as other loaded cars? The maximum weight of many cars is about 268k pounds. Aren't cars like covered hoppers built to hold enough grain to get to that limit? The same for gondolas and other cars? It would seem odd to have railroads haul multiple partially filled cars (carrying the same product from the same shipper). If steel coil cars are so much heavier, how can they use the same 4-axle trucks as other cars with the same gross rating?
Commodities can either cube out (light weight commodities) or weigh out (heavy commodities) on their shipping containers (cars, trailers, containers).
Rail cars that are DESIGNED to carry heavier loads will have larger axle bearings than cars designed to carry lighter loads.
Living outside the port city of Baltimore, I frequently see all variety of containers - both international and domestic - despite their different sizes they all have nearly identical maximum allowed load limits. Highway load limits don't care about the size of the container, those load limit are FIXED for all loads, no matter the size of the vehicle/container.
Railcars have the cubic capacity designed to match the weight of the commodity that those cars are expected to carry.
UP's statement on weights
https://www.up.com/aboutup/reference/maps/allowable_gross_weight/index.htm
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
You're taking the comments from "someone" a little too seriously. The "someones" have obviously never worked for a railroad and have never weighed or billed out even a single car.
The maximum allowable weight of a railcar is determined not only by what the car design is capable of handling, but also by what the track can handle. A given segment of track will have a weight limitation, for most modern lines this is indeed 286,000 lbs but some still have lower weight limits, in particular there are still a couple branchlines in northern Canada on which cars over 220,000 lbs are prohibited during warmer months.
The railroads take overloaded and unevenly loaded cars very seriously due to the potential for track and equipment damage.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Sure. Those 'someones' are just people who watch YT videos (for the most part). When I first got interested in trains (about 3 months ago), I just went along with those comments but after learning what little I know about trains and railroads, it didn't make sense. That's why I asked here, where people have real railroad experience.
Another example of a very 'heavy' or dense load is magnetite, a type of iron oxide powder which is used by coal mines during the coal cleaning or sorting process. The mines here used to get it shipped in standard length gondola cars, each car was listed as weighing over 140 tons and you could look inside to see two small piles of black dust sitting on top of the trucks at each end of the car. At least 75% of the car's volume capacity was filled with nothing but air, yet it still weighed out.
Some people might state that they're "heavy" when they really mean that they are short for how much payload they can carry. Same with ore jennies.
BackshopSame with ore jennies.
Or methyl ethyl lead, or whatever it's called. Stubby little tankers.
Back a few years the "taco" train through Deshler used standard hoppers. The taconite was carefully loaded mostly over the trucks, and there was so little (volume-wise) in the cars that even the railcams, which are above the cars, couldn't see it. They're using ore jennies now.
On the other end of the spectrum, CSX's "Coke Express" hoppers often have extended sides, as coke is lighter than coal.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BackshopSome people might state that they're "heavy" when they really mean that they are short for how much payload they can carry. Same with ore jennies.
During my career and the territories I have worked and/or supervised there are many locations where the concentration or distribution of weight in a train can be your friend or your enemy.
Akron hill on the B&O, approximately one mile of one percent grade going in both directions from a 10 MPH permanent slow order at Akron Jct.
Take two 8000 ton trains - On train is 4000 feet long and the other is 8000 feet long. There is a higher probability of the 4000 foot train stalling on the grade - it will have the weight of ALL the train on the grade for nearly 1300 feet before the head end starts to reach the crest of the grade and therefore starts subtracting the amount of weight it still has to move up the grade. The 8000 foot train, when its head end gets to the crest of the grade still has about 2700 feet of its train still descending into the pit of the grade at Akron Jct and thus pushing the head 5300 feet of train up the ascending portion of the grade.
Watching hopper trains LEAVING Curtis Bay going West, it was easy to tell the loaded ore trains from the empty hopper trains - even though there were limited visual clues - but there were copious auditory clues. The weight generate a creaking 'weighted' sound as the cars move over the track structure - both from the cars and the track structure. My vocabulary doesn't permit me to accurately discribe the sounds to anyone that has not experienced them first hand.
Since weight distribution was mentioned... Are tank cars ever shipped less than completely full of liquid? Liquid sloshing in a 1/2 full tank can be very unstable.
Perry Babin Since weight distribution was mentioned... Are tank cars ever shipped less than completely full of liquid? Liquid sloshing in a 1/2 full tank can be very unstable.
SD70Dude You're taking the comments from "someone" a little too seriously. The "someones" have obviously never worked for a railroad and have never weighed or billed out even a single car. The maximum allowable weight of a railcar is determined not only by what the car design is capable of handling, but also by what the track can handle. A given segment of track will have a weight limitation, for most modern lines this is indeed 286,000 lbs but some still have lower weight limits, in particular there are still a couple branchlines in northern Canada on which cars over 220,000 lbs are prohibited during warmer months. The railroads take overloaded and unevenly loaded cars very seriously due to the potential for track and equipment damage.
I agree with everything the Dude has said and, I believe it was Balt's statement, about reaching cube capacity before weight capacity.
But, with the qualifers from both, the statement is true. Simplistic comparison, just like the thread about "trains vs. trucks." They will be heavier than some loads, but equal to other heavy loads.
It would be false if they said that they are THE heaviest loads, specialty heavy duty cars excluded.
Jeff
... and then the line of thought from the "someones" on helium gas railcars goes like?
Backshop Some people might state that they're "heavy" when they really mean that they are short for how much payload they can carry. Same with ore jennies.
Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"?
A - They are equally heavy - both weigh a ton. They have different densities, which is why a block of iron is a lot smaller than a file of feathers.
Weight does NOT equal density!
BEAUSABREA - They are equally heavy - both weigh a ton. They have different densities, which is why a block of iron is a lot smaller than a file of feathers.
I had the chance to observe a block of open coil cars passing me this morning -- there was one coil over each truck, with nothing in the middle, and the springs on the trucks were not heavily depressed (as they might be if the whole length of the car was 'populated' or there was a welded steel hood over the load).
BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? A - They are equally heavy - both weigh a ton. They have different densities, which is why a block of iron is a lot smaller than a file of feathers. Weight does NOT equal density!
Feathers from a African or European swallow?
BEAUSABREHence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"?
Or the trick question: Which is heavier, a pound of gold, or a pound of feathers?
(It's the feathers...)
tree68BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? Or the trick question: Which is heavier, a pound of gold, or a pound of feathers? (It's the feathers...)
chutton01 tree68 BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? Or the trick question: Which is heavier, a pound of gold, or a pound of feathers? (It's the feathers...) Which is why if I ever check gold prices I look for the price in grams (at this minute its given as US$59.99 / g - 59,990.00 / Kg) - none of this silly avoirdupois vs troy weight conversions...
tree68 BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? Or the trick question: Which is heavier, a pound of gold, or a pound of feathers? (It's the feathers...)
Which is why if I ever check gold prices I look for the price in grams (at this minute its given as US$59.99 / g - 59,990.00 / Kg) - none of this silly avoirdupois vs troy weight conversions...
£1 of gold is about a half a gram!!
rdamon chutton01 tree68 BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? Or the trick question: Which is heavier, a pound of gold, or a pound of feathers? (It's the feathers...) Which is why if I ever check gold prices I look for the price in grams (at this minute its given as US$59.99 / g - 59,990.00 / Kg) - none of this silly avoirdupois vs troy weight conversions... £1 of gold is about a half a gram!!
rdamon BEAUSABRE Hence that question beloved of teaches of Physics 101, "What is heavier, a ton of steel or a ton of feathers"? A - They are equally heavy - both weigh a ton. They have different densities, which is why a block of iron is a lot smaller than a file of feathers. Weight does NOT equal density! Feathers from a African or European swallow?
American of course, it doesn't work in metric
Or the story of a fellow who put in a bid to move some large quantity of balsa from the docks to the warehouse. He believed the weight was well within the capabilities of his truck. The cubes, not so much...
What he thought would be one or two trips was many more...
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