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CPKC may be buying Meridian and Bigbee track

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CPKC may be buying Meridian and Bigbee track
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 10:09 PM

The devil will be in details to be announced with CSX but so far appears apparently straight forward.

From WIKI:

The M&B was chartered on December 24, 1926. Construction advanced eastward to Myrtlewood, Alabama where it connected with the l&N in 1935. Now we know why Myrtlewood. 

In 2003 the M&B took over the ex-L&N line from Myrtlewood to Selma, Alabama and the ex-Western Railway of Alabama line from Selma to Burkville west of Montgomery. CSX retained ownership between Montgomery and Burkville, where there is a large industrial customer.  Right now murky ownership Burkeville - Myrtlewood but CSX filings will tell.

 

Now how CSX is taking over from Burkville - Myrtlewood will become clear in filings.

Could not find an aerial of Mytlewood but the big town of 2020 census 70 and 2010 of 120 probably has several abandoned buildings with no hotels.  But does have a 2 hour a day post office 10;00 - 12:00.

This route will have high possible inteermodal traffic but as to how the exclusive speedway that C-PAK has with NS may come into consideration.  With the proposed Amtrak expansion from Meridian - DAL/FTW more track capacity may be needed?  Who pays? almost certainly not NS?

From Montgomery CSX could use either the BOW line to Brisinbain - Valdosta or route trains to LaGrange - Manchester - Valdosta.  All depends on traffic and intermodal loads.

Note many years ago SAL had a direct route from Montgomery - Savannah but abandoned in Alabama by Seaboard System (SBD) and operated by several short lines in Georgia. 

 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 11:08 PM

This deal opens a through route all the way to Montgomery, Alabama.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/jun/28/csx-in-deal-for-portions-of-meridian-bigbee-railroad/

At Montgomery traffic can head north for fast-growing Nashville, northeast to fast-growing Atlanta, or southeast to fast-growing Jacksonville and Florida.

https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/files/customers/maps/printable-system-map/

With approximately 2/3 of the US population residing east of the Mississippi River and the general trend to near-shore manufacturing, a play for a single waybill from Mexico to the southeast consumer markets makes a lot of sense.

One wonders how long it will be before CPKC has to pay for capacity improvements along its trackage rights through Texas just as BNSF has had to do over Tehachapi.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 11:15 PM

My belief is that CSX retained ownership from Montgomery to Myrtlewood and leased it to the M&B to operate and maintain.

When it comes to routing traffice on CSX beyond Montgomery, the Bow Line is as best a 25 MPH streak of rust that is seriously overloaded with more than 2 through trains per day.  Feature that through traffic would move Montgomery to Birmingham to Lagrange and onto Atlanta or Manchester and on to Waycross.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, June 29, 2023 12:55 AM

CSX has been upgrading the Bow Line with CWR off and on for the past three years so maybe some of that rust will get knocked off.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, June 29, 2023 6:46 AM

kgbw49

 With approximately 2/3 of the US population residing east of the Mississippi River  

It's actually about 60:40.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 29, 2023 7:28 AM

They could also connect the dots West of Dallas into Fort Worth and then Southwest to the Mexican border.     Would require a lot of capital to upgrade that rail line but would make for a nice Southern mainline from Montgomery, AL

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, June 29, 2023 8:52 AM

BaltACD

My belief is that CSX retained ownership from Montgomery to Myrtlewood and leased it to the M&B to operate and maintain.

When it comes to routing traffice on CSX beyond Montgomery, the Bow Line is as best a 25 MPH streak of rust that is seriously overloaded with more than 2 through trains per day.  Feature that through traffic would move Montgomery to Birmingham to Lagrange and onto Atlanta or Manchester and on to Waycross.

 

Correct Balt, CSX leased that portion to the MNBR. It's not that CPKC may be buying it. CPKC will purchase the original portion of the route from Meridian to Myrtlewood. While CSX will terminate the lease between Myrtlewood and Burkville. MNBR will remain as a neutral switching entity similar to what is going on with the CSX-G&W-NS in relation to the PAR purchase.

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, June 29, 2023 8:54 AM

The deal only relates to traffic between, Mexico-Laredo-Houston-ATL. Not DFW, as KCS-NS have an exclusive agreement for DFW-ATL traffic. Any CSX haulage rights between DFW-ATL would be a breach of contract becoming grounds for litigation against CPKC. Also remember NS-UP interline via Shreveport.

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 29, 2023 9:22 AM

D.Carleton
CSX has been upgrading the Bow Line with CWR off and on for the past three years so maybe some of that rust will get knocked off.

The Dothan Sub from Montgomery to Thomasville is 211 miles with 9 passing sidings - as of the 2005 Jacksonville Div ETT the longest of which was 7611 feet, with the majority being in the 6000 foot variety.  It is all Dark territory with no signaling. 

The balance of the Bow Line is the line from Thomasville to Waycross. 107 miles with 6 passing sidings with 7300 feet being the shortest.  The Thomasville Sub is also Dark territory.

At least when I was working - the bulk of the capacity expansion that CSX was doing was on subdivision other than the Bow Line.  At one point in time the Operating Plan had all through trains removed from the Bow Line - Local/Road Switchers only.  That came to an abrupt change when a Officers Inspection Special used over 24 hours to run from Birmingham to Waycross over the Lineville and Fitzgerald Subs account train congestion on both of those subdivisions.

To make the Bow Line effective for more than a couple of through trains each was will require more than just laying welded rail on the main track.  It will require effective 21st Century siding lengths as well as signalling.

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Posted by JayBee on Thursday, June 29, 2023 10:17 AM

Per a posting on another Railfan forum CPKC began lowering the track in their Meridian Yard to allow Doublestacks and Autoracks to pass under the viaduct leading to the M&B RR. This work began this past Sunday, June 25th.

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Posted by JayBee on Thursday, June 29, 2023 10:20 AM

SD60MAC9500

The deal only relates to traffic between, Mexico-Laredo-Houston-ATL. Not DFW, as KCS-NS have an exclusive agreement for DFW-ATL traffic. Any CSX haulage rights between DFW-ATL would be a breach of contract becoming grounds for litigation against CPKC. Also remember NS-UP interline via Shreveport. 

I was under the impression that the KCS - NS agreement only applied to Intermodal.

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Posted by AuTiger19 on Thursday, June 29, 2023 12:59 PM

Going west from Waycross, the sidings of Boston, Climax, Donalsonville, Dillard and Youngblood are all being extended.  Donalsonville is already completed and measures just under 15,000ft long, the rest will all be at minimum 13,000ft long.  The sidings are all using #15 turnouts with 136lb rail too.  PTC is also active on the entire route and welded rail along the entire route is almost complete.  CSX has been putting a lot of money into the Bowline the past 3 years.  They must have some big plans for it.  Quite the change of pace for a line that looked to be sold off in 2018.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, June 29, 2023 3:02 PM

JayBee

 

 
SD60MAC9500

The deal only relates to traffic between, Mexico-Laredo-Houston-ATL. Not DFW, as KCS-NS have an exclusive agreement for DFW-ATL traffic. Any CSX haulage rights between DFW-ATL would be a breach of contract becoming grounds for litigation against CPKC. Also remember NS-UP interline via Shreveport. 

 

I was under the impression that the KCS - NS agreement only applied to Intermodal.

 

Yes it applies to IM traffic. However this new serivce is mainly targeting IM autoparts traffic that Schneider moves between Mexico-Southeast. 

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, June 29, 2023 3:44 PM

AuTiger19
Going west from Waycross, the sidings of Boston, Climax, Donalsonville, Dillard and Youngblood are all being extended.  Donalsonville is already completed and measures just under 15,000ft long, the rest will all be at minimum 13,000ft long.  The sidings are all using #15 turnouts with 136lb rail too.  PTC is also active on the entire route and welded rail along the entire route is almost complete.  CSX has been putting a lot of money into the Bowline the past 3 years.  They must have some big plans for it.  Quite the change of pace for a line that looked to be sold off in 2018.

Thank you for that. I haven't been up that way in a dog's age. Having lived through the CSX scorched earth campaign of the mid-80's it's gratifying to see something making a comeback.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 29, 2023 4:50 PM

AuTiger19
Going west from Waycross, the sidings of Boston, Climax, Donalsonville, Dillard and Youngblood are all being extended.  Donalsonville is already completed and measures just under 15,000ft long, the rest will all be at minimum 13,000ft long.  The sidings are all using #15 turnouts with 136lb rail too.  PTC is also active on the entire route and welded rail along the entire route is almost complete.  CSX has been putting a lot of money into the Bowline the past 3 years.  They must have some big plans for it.  Quite the change of pace for a line that looked to be sold off in 2018.

Good to see the EHH vision of CSX being hammered into the ground and buried along with him.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, June 30, 2023 11:21 AM

This continues to look like a smart move for CPKC and CSX.

Looking at the southern portion of CSX, the CPKC Meridian Speedway with the Meridian & Bigbee looks like the trunk of a tree with major limbs spreading from Montgomery to Tennessee, Montgomery to Georgia-North Carolina-South Carolina, and Montgomery to Florida, all of which are among the fastest-growing states in the nation.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 30, 2023 11:30 AM

I had a house in Shreveport at the time KCS took over from Mid-South, and the premise was always that the Speedway was intended to facilitate through traffic over this or other expedient route.

Suspect it is happening now because of CP's additional access to suitable sources of capital.  Expect it to happen soon, and happen right.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, June 30, 2023 3:47 PM

SD60MAC9500
JayBee
SD60MAC9500

The deal only relates to traffic between, Mexico-Laredo-Houston-ATL. Not DFW, as KCS-NS have an exclusive agreement for DFW-ATL traffic. Any CSX haulage rights between DFW-ATL would be a breach of contract becoming grounds for litigation against CPKC. Also remember NS-UP interline via Shreveport. 

I was under the impression that the KCS - NS agreement only applied to Intermodal.

Yes it applies to IM traffic. However this new serivce is mainly targeting IM autoparts traffic that Schneider moves between Mexico-Southeast.

It's a safe bet NS will be keeping a very close eye on what traffic is rolling over their investment on the Meridian Speedway. CPKC should be, and likely will be, proactive with investment in capex to assuage NS and mollify the STB. Likewise, NS could see the opportunity for further partnerships, say, KC to Detroit?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, June 30, 2023 6:46 PM

For the Meridian Speedeay deal, KCS contributed the rail line and NS contributed $300 million for capital upgrades to the line.

It will be interesting to see if further capacity upgrades will be needed to the Meridian Speedway to handle any new CPKC-CSX traffic.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 2, 2023 12:40 PM

Had no idea that CSX is doing major upgrades of the BOW  line.  Balt's post of how it was when he retired was my understanding.  Not now apparently.  This in my opinion will mitigate any need to route traffic over the coast line Flomaton - Pensacola - Cottondale -Tallahassee - Jacksonville (Balwin)) route for CSX.  Bow line enroute will be quicker.

Bow line will cover Pannama City traffic from Dothan, Tallahassee traffic from Bainbridge, AN traffic still will operate same route(s).

What is more important that the deteoriation of the coast line from Pensacola <> JAX will be many cofin nails into any Sunset East train ever get restored.

The CSX - CPAK route especially to Houston and East Texas will decrease the problems at NOL and reduce all coast line potential traffic.  All this new routing is either alreay PTC or will get same.  No need to install it on the coast line Flomaton Pensacola for sure to - JAX!

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 2, 2023 2:55 PM

blue streak 1
Had no idea that CSX is doing major upgrades of the BOW  line.  Balt's post of how it was when he retired was my understanding.  Not now apparently.  This in my opinion will mitigate any need to route traffic over the coast line Flomaton - Pensacola - Cottondale -Tallahassee - Jacksonville (Balwin)) route for CSX.  Bow line enroute will be quicker.

Bow line will cover Pannama City traffic from Dothan, Tallahassee traffic from Bainbridge, AN traffic still will operate same route(s).

What is more important that the deteoriation of the coast line from Pensacola <> JAX will be many cofin nails into any Sunset East train ever get restored.

The CSX - CPAK route especially to Houston and East Texas will decrease the problems at NOL and reduce all coast line potential traffic.  All this new routing is either alreay PTC or will get same.  No need to install it on the coast line Flomaton Pensacola for sure  - JAX!

CSX has leased out the line between Pensacola and Baldwin to a short line (I forget the name of it).  New Orleans traffic has been rerouted over the Lineville Sub and the Bow Line.  I suspect the upgrading of the Bow Line is the result of leasing out most of the PD and PA subs.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, July 2, 2023 3:29 PM

BaltACD
CSX has leased out the line between Pensacola and Baldwin to a short line (I forget the name of it).  New Orleans traffic has been rerouted over the Lineville Sub and the Bow Line.  I suspect the upgrading of the Bow Line is the result of leasing out most of the PD and PA subs.

Reads like a smart move to make given the proximity of the coast line and increasing severity of Hurricanes.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, July 2, 2023 3:35 PM

blue streak 1
What is more important that the deteoriation of the coast line from Pensacola <> JAX will be many cofin nails into any Sunset East train ever get restored.

Which doesn't have to be.   The state could pitch in on the line maintenence.   Which I might add the line between Arcadia and Bonita Springs, FL could use a hefty dose of rehab.........among others in the state.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, July 2, 2023 4:43 PM

It would not surprise me if eventually CPKC has to pay for capacity improvements in trackage rights areas around Houston.

That would be very similar to BNSF forking over the bulk of the cost of capacity improvements over Tehachapi where they have trackage rights but are the majority of the traffic.

If the CPKC-CSX route becomes the Grand Southeastern Trunk Line and starts pulling traffic to the route, speed through southeastern Texas will be of crucial import to the endeavor.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 3, 2023 12:13 PM

Some intersting pre announcements has come into focs.

Train orders has a post stating track work in Meridian  began Sunday June 25th.  By JUNE 26 a rail line under 22nd Ave was lowered 5 feet with new ties. ballast, an new rail. That will give the route double stack clearances for this new route.  Oprn railway map shows this underpass as M&B ownership.   Many yard tracks were also improved.

The poster stated all work done by C-PAK.  Now how that actually worked for M&B tracks has not been stated.  Note this work started before the official announcement of the new routing .  Here is link to official announcement.

Railroads reach agreement to create new direct connection and corridor linking Mexico, Texas and the U.S. Southeast (cpkcr.com) 

The STB filings date is not known but C-PAK apparently started June 25th to prevent interfering with M&B traffic.    C-PAK certainly is not letting any weeds grow.

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Posted by JayBee on Monday, July 3, 2023 1:38 PM

blue streak 1

Some intersting pre announcements has come into focus.

Train orders has a post stating track work in Meridian  began Sunday June 25th.  By JUNE 26 a rail line under 22nd Ave was lowered 5 feet with new ties. ballast, an new rail. That will give the route double stack clearances for this new route.  Oprn railway map shows this underpass as M&B ownership.   Many yard tracks were also improved.

The poster stated all work done by C-PAK.  Now how that actually worked for M&B tracks has not been stated.  Note this work started before the official announcement of the new routing .  Here is link to official announcement. 

Open Street Map is wrong about the ownership of that track where the work is being done so far. M&B ownership begins just before the track crosses the NS mainline. The lowering is to obtain clearance under the 29th Avenue viaduct, undercutting will also be necessary under the 18th Avenue viaduct which is on M&B owned trackage just across from and beyond the Meridian Union Station.

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Posted by n012944 on Monday, July 3, 2023 3:56 PM

BaltACD

 

 
blue streak 1
Had no idea that CSX is doing major upgrades of the BOW  line.  Balt's post of how it was when he retired was my understanding.  Not now apparently.  This in my opinion will mitigate any need to route traffic over the coast line Flomaton - Pensacola - Cottondale -Tallahassee - Jacksonville (Balwin)) route for CSX.  Bow line enroute will be quicker.

Bow line will cover Pannama City traffic from Dothan, Tallahassee traffic from Bainbridge, AN traffic still will operate same route(s).

What is more important that the deteoriation of the coast line from Pensacola <> JAX will be many cofin nails into any Sunset East train ever get restored.

The CSX - CPAK route especially to Houston and East Texas will decrease the problems at NOL and reduce all coast line potential traffic.  All this new routing is either alreay PTC or will get same.  No need to install it on the coast line Flomaton Pensacola for sure  - JAX!

 

CSX has leased out the line between Pensacola and Baldwin to a short line (I forget the name of it).  New Orleans traffic has been rerouted over the Lineville Sub and the Bow Line.  I suspect the upgrading of the Bow Line is the result of leasing out most of the PD and PA subs.

 

 

 

 

Florida Gulf & Atlantic.  From what I understand that line needs a lot of expensive bridge work.   Lots of wooden bridges through the swamps.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, July 3, 2023 10:45 PM

Here are the coordinates to a small yard on the northwest side of Myrtlewood, Alabama.

32.259691, -87.965200

Copy and paste into your browser.

It will definitely have to be expanded if it is going to function as an interchange point, and perhaps a crew change point, for CPKC and CSX.

Or perhaps they will just let crews run through to Montgomery and Meridian.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2023 1:56 PM

Open rasilway map has updated tracks around Myrtlewoodl  One siding south of main line ~ 2500 feet in length and one siding on north side of main ~ 6000 feet in length on north side.  Also an abandone wye east of this second siding.

Can we expect for both RRs to want much longer sidings there?  Maybe more?

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