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Australian driverless train derailment

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Australian driverless train derailment
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 18, 2023 1:57 AM

A driver-less train and their problem

 
Inbox
 
 
 
 

Steve Sattler

8:35 AM (1 hour ago)
 
 
to bcc: me
 
 
 

Western Australia:

     An investigation has started after a driverless train

operated by mining giant Rio Tinto derailed on the

outskirts of Karratha.

The incident happened around 6:30pm on Saturday,

leaving multiple train cars overturned next to the rail

line along Warlu Road.

The mining giant operates around 14,000 cars across

its Pilbara rail lines, with each car holding up to 118

tonnes of iron ore.

A Rio Tinto spokesperson said the train was heading

to the Port of Dampier from one of its mine sites.

"The incident involved a loaded train, with

approximately 30 wagons derailed," he said.

"The safety and wellbeing of our people and

communities is our top priority.

"The train was in autonomous mode and no-one

was injured in the incident.The rail line is only

used by the mining giant, and does not host other

trains.

Work to recover the derailed wagons has commenced

and the Office of the National Rail Safety Regulator

(ONRSR) has been notified. ONRSR said initial

indications were that the onboard systems

governing the automated train safety had

functioned as required. 

 


 

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, June 18, 2023 8:00 AM
Dave,
 
Regarding the following quote from your post:
 
“A driver-less train and their problem”
 
What is the problem that the quote refers to?  All we are told is that a driverless train derailed. 
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 18, 2023 10:46 AM

Yeah, it's an attempt to denigrate 'driverless trains' by implying it's important or even relevant that the train was under robot control at the time.

What was the physical cause of the derailment?

What is the proof (or even likely explanation) of how the autonomic control caused, or even contributed negatively toward, the incident?

Depending on how fast the train was moving, even with prompt ECP emergency accelerated set (the ~3% prospective 'advantage') it might be likely that 30 cars would derail by the time brakes stopped the rest of the consist, even if the most vigilant engineer was on the brake as soon as they realized the train had started to derail.

Now, if this was something like lateral kink ahead of the train, I'd expect a proper 'driverless' system to detect and respond to it, perhaps faster than a human engineer.  But this leaves open whether it's worse to have a train going into emergency negotiating that bad a track-geometry defect in the first place...

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, June 18, 2023 11:00 AM
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 18, 2023 12:19 PM

SD60MAC9500

That is exactly the same text quoted in the original post -- if you could read it all.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, June 18, 2023 12:44 PM

Yes, that is the aritcle I find when googling the derailment.  Apparently the part of the post that I questioned was a comment made possibly by a friend of Dave.  Certainly the point that autonomouse trains add danger is a view that is common.  Every thread about it here raises that point.   

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, June 18, 2023 3:45 PM

Euclid

Yes, that is the aritcle I find when googling the derailment.  Apparently the part of the post that I questioned was a comment made possibly by a friend of Dave.  Certainly the point that autonomouse trains add danger is a view that is common.  Every thread about it here raises that point.   

 

You mean  the autonomouse train doesn't have a mouse at the throttle? Mischief

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, June 18, 2023 4:31 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
Euclid

Yes, that is the aritcle I find when googling the derailment.  Apparently the part of the post that I questioned was a comment made possibly by a friend of Dave.  Certainly the point that autonomouse trains add danger is a view that is common.  Every thread about it here raises that point.   

 

 

 

You mean  the autonomouse train doesn't have a mouse at the throttle? Mischief

 

 

I guess that one did.  

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, June 18, 2023 8:21 PM

Looking at the video, only the last third of the train derailed. By the time the video was taken, the locomotives and the first two thirds of the train were already in Seven Mile Yard waiting their turn at the ore dumpers. I think crews drive the train to the dumpers.

The most likely cause for the derailment of trailing cars well back in the train is a bearing failure. These cars are heavily loaded, up to 140 tonnes gross, 118 tonnes ore loaded. 140 tonnes is 308560 pounds.

The line has frequent hot bearing detectors and dragging equipment detectors, cast iron bars that would be broken by a derailed axle or draging brake gear.

It is most likely that a crew would not have seen a bearing problem some 150 cars back anyway.

The line in that location is dead straight on a falling grade. It is only a few miles from the management centre and is unlikely to have had any track defects.

I was riding a train there when the yard controller decided to change a signal from green to red, so our train went into emergency. Our train, 200  loaded cars, broke in five places, including a drawbar between a "married pair". But nothing derailed.

So I'd put my money on a failed bearing.

I'd say the track would have been back in service a day later.

I don't think a manned train would have been handled in any way differently.

At this location there would have been no risk to any member of the public except someone who had stopped to watch a train on his way home from the garbage dump. The company fence is a hundred metres from the track at this point.

Peter

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, June 18, 2023 9:00 PM

It highlights the one drawback of crewless trains that the railroads' can't solve.

They can't blame the crew when there isn't one.

Jeff

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