I'm not sure about current practices but Florida East Coast in 1961 comes close.
The better question is there a class one where that attitude has not developed? I'd say no.
Not that any are in imminent danger of collapse. Nor is that attitude held by all employees, but it's there among some. We'll see if a more "enlightened" attitude by management (CSX comes to mind) actually developes and takes hold among the class ones.
Jeff
croteauddLabor had become so antagonistic towards a ruthless management they preferred the destruction of the company over solving problems!
Anyone who's curious about that -- try Grounded, a 1990 book by Aaron Bernstein. The remains of Eastern disappeared soon after he wrote the book.
Anecdotal story from a family member who worked for another airline at the time was that when Eddie Rickenbacker lost a battle with the pilots union before the jet age, he instructed the maintenance crews to remove the autopilots from the planes so they had to work for their extra money.
Guilford/ B&M...recent history
rdamon Anecdotal story from a family member who worked for another airline at the time was that when Eddie Rickenbacker lost a battle with the pilots union before the jet age, he instructed the maintenance crews to remove the autopilots from the planes so they had to work for their extra money.
If you have not yet read THE GREATEST GENERATION by Tom Brokaw you should. I grew up just 7-8 years too young to have participated in WW II, but I knew many who did, and some who did not return. Their participation in the dynamic resurgence of this country between 1945 and the Vietnan War exemplifies what the USA can do when its population has the right attitude.
Flintlock76 rdamon Anecdotal story from a family member who worked for another airline at the time was that when Eddie Rickenbacker lost a battle with the pilots union before the jet age, he instructed the maintenance crews to remove the autopilots from the planes so they had to work for their extra money. Sounds anecdotal to me but I will say this. Like most people born in the late 19th Century and who pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps Rickenbacker was tough. I'm old enough to remember the World War One generation and let me tell you, all the ones I met were tough. Good people and great grandparents but not ones to suffer fools gladly.
Sounds anecdotal to me but I will say this. Like most people born in the late 19th Century and who pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps Rickenbacker was tough. I'm old enough to remember the World War One generation and let me tell you, all the ones I met were tough. Good people and great grandparents but not ones to suffer fools gladly.
He might have been tough, but because he didn't realize jets were the way of the future Eastern went astray, from being the most profitable airline to eventual death. Time passed him by.
Never heard EAL removing auto-pilots/ Now EAL did not order CV-440s with auto pilots. Other aircraft unknown.
EAL went under because of bank and management hi jinks. There is a famous story. In 1968 Floyd Hall CEO at that time had an all employees meeting in an auditorium in ATL. There was a Captain who got up and made a statement that was a good guess.
He stated EAL stock was trading around $32 / share. The stock was paying a certain dividend each quarter Captain stated that EAL had 50M shares authorized by SEC but only about 10M in hands of owners. Captain stated it was foolish to finance expansion by borrowing funds from bank to finance jet aircraft at rates over 15%. Interest due every month. This was height of Vietman and money was hard to get at lower rates.
Captain noted that selling any 10 million would raise $300M more than enough to raise needed funds for aircraft financing. He further noted if things turned sour that EAL could just stop paying dividends. Whereas banks would keep getting its interest payments.
Floyd Hall infamously stated that Captain did not have big picture. Well EAL in 18 months stock down to 3-1/4 and could not pay dividends, had to refinance some bank debt, and management crying the blues.
blue streak 1Never heard EAL removing auto-pilots/ Now EAL did not order CV-440s with auto pilots. Other aircraft unknown. EAL went under because of bank and management hi jinks. There is a famous story. In 1968 Floyd Hall CEO at that time had an all employees meeting in an auditorium in ATL. There was a Captain who got up and made a statement that was a good guess. He stated EAL stock was trading around $32 / share. The stock was paying a certain dividend each quarter Captain stated that EAL had 50M shares authorized by SEC but only about 10M in hands of owners. Captain stated it was foolish to finance expansion by borrowing funds from bank to finance jet aircraft at rates over 15%. Interest due every month. This was height of Vietman and money was hard to get at lower rates. Captain noted that selling any 10 million would raise $300M more than enough to raise needed funds for aircraft financing. He further noted if things turned sour that EAL could just stop paying dividends. Whereas banks would keep getting its interest payments. Floyd Hall infamously stated that Captain did not have big picture. Well EAL in 18 months stock down to 3-1/4 and could not pay dividends, had to refinance some bank debt, and management crying the blues.
Flew EAL between Baltimore & Jacksonville on a number of occasions in the late 1980's. EAL flights backed themselves away from boarding gates using their jet engines with reverse thrust enabled rather than have a driver operating a vehicle to push the plane back from the gate. I have no idea what the trade off was between extra jet fuel utilized for the move vs. the cost of the employee and vehicle to do the job was. Just know that most all the other carriers use the push vehicle.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
diningcar If you have not yet read THE GREATEST GENERATION by Tom Brokaw you should. I grew up just 7-8 years too young to have participated in WW II, but I knew many who did, and some who did not return. Their participation in the dynamic resurgence of this country between 1945 and the Vietnan War exemplifies what the USA can do when its population has the right attitude.
blue streak 1 EAL went under because of bank and management hi jinks. There is a famous story. In 1968 Floyd Hall CEO at that time had an all employees meeting in an auditorium in ATL. There was a Captain who got up and made a statement that was a good guess. He stated EAL stock was trading around $32 / share. The stock was paying a certain dividend each quarter Captain stated that EAL had 50M shares authorized by SEC but only about 10M in hands of owners. Captain stated it was foolish to finance expansion by borrowing funds from bank to finance jet aircraft at rates over 15%. Interest due every month. This was height of Vietman and money was hard to get at lower rates. Captain noted that selling any 10 million would raise $300M more than enough to raise needed funds for aircraft financing. He further noted if things turned sour that EAL could just stop paying dividends. Whereas banks would keep getting its interest payments.
Back in early 1978, I got a double dose of the tradeoffs between debt and equity financing. One dose came from the economic aspects of nuclear fuel cycles (fuel rods last three to five years and thus could not be expensed) and the other dose came from the financing chapter in Hiltons and Due's book on Electric Interurbans.
In short, the advantage of debt financing is that the interest payments comes from pre-tax income, where dividend payments come from post tax income. In addition, the interest rate paid will often be less than the yield for stock. One last advantage is that using debt avoids diluting the stock and allows the existing shareholders to maintain control.
The big disadvantage of debt financing is that in a downturn, there may not be enough money to pay the interest due, which may prompt the bondholders to take action such as forcing the company to declare bankruptcy. Hilton and Due suggested that some of the interurbans could have survived longer had they relied more on equity funding than debt funding.
BaltACD blue streak 1 Never heard EAL removing auto-pilots/ Now EAL did not order CV-440s with auto pilots. Other aircraft unknown. EAL went under because of bank and management hi jinks. There is a famous story. In 1968 Floyd Hall CEO at that time had an all employees meeting in an auditorium in ATL. There was a Captain who got up and made a statement that was a good guess. He stated EAL stock was trading around $32 / share. The stock was paying a certain dividend each quarter Captain stated that EAL had 50M shares authorized by SEC but only about 10M in hands of owners. Captain stated it was foolish to finance expansion by borrowing funds from bank to finance jet aircraft at rates over 15%. Interest due every month. This was height of Vietman and money was hard to get at lower rates. Captain noted that selling any 10 million would raise $300M more than enough to raise needed funds for aircraft financing. He further noted if things turned sour that EAL could just stop paying dividends. Whereas banks would keep getting its interest payments. Floyd Hall infamously stated that Captain did not have big picture. Well EAL in 18 months stock down to 3-1/4 and could not pay dividends, had to refinance some bank debt, and management crying the blues. Flew EAL between Baltimore & Jacksonville on a number of occasions in the late 1980's. EAL flights backed themselves away from boarding gates using their jet engines with reverse thrust enabled rather than have a driver operating a vehicle to push the plane back from the gate. I have no idea what the trade off was between extra jet fuel utilized for the move vs. the cost of the employee and vehicle to do the job was. Just know that most all the other carriers use the push vehicle.
blue streak 1 Never heard EAL removing auto-pilots/ Now EAL did not order CV-440s with auto pilots. Other aircraft unknown. EAL went under because of bank and management hi jinks. There is a famous story. In 1968 Floyd Hall CEO at that time had an all employees meeting in an auditorium in ATL. There was a Captain who got up and made a statement that was a good guess. He stated EAL stock was trading around $32 / share. The stock was paying a certain dividend each quarter Captain stated that EAL had 50M shares authorized by SEC but only about 10M in hands of owners. Captain stated it was foolish to finance expansion by borrowing funds from bank to finance jet aircraft at rates over 15%. Interest due every month. This was height of Vietman and money was hard to get at lower rates. Captain noted that selling any 10 million would raise $300M more than enough to raise needed funds for aircraft financing. He further noted if things turned sour that EAL could just stop paying dividends. Whereas banks would keep getting its interest payments. Floyd Hall infamously stated that Captain did not have big picture. Well EAL in 18 months stock down to 3-1/4 and could not pay dividends, had to refinance some bank debt, and management crying the blues.
Other airlines experimented with the reverse thrust method during that timeframe as well. It only worked with the high, rear mounted engines, dominant at the time. Newer aircraft, with the large, wing mounted engines, made the method undoable, and it was discontinued.
BLS53 Other airlines experimented with the reverse thrust method during that timeframe as well. It only worked with the high, rear mounted engines, dominant at the time. Newer aircraft, with the large, wing mounted engines, made the method undoable, and it was discontinued.
charlie hebdobecause he didn't realize jets were the way of the future Eastern went astray
Powerbacking was pretty common in the 80's not sure if it was fuel economy or damaging engines or people with FOD that ended the practice.
Watched a C17 demo it at an airshow - no need to turn around.
The modern high-bipass turbofans don't have the old "clamshell" style thrust reversers like the old "Diesel 9s" did.
BLS53Other airlines experimented with the reverse thrust method during that timeframe as well.
Saw an AF prop plane back up with its props once. Apparently you can reverse pitch on them, too...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
EAL backed both DC-9s and B-727s . A unanticipated effect was because FOD patrols worked to keep ramps clear total FOD damage went down.
EAL backed L-188s (Electras ) more than once.
Also the Rock Island...but the FEC survived and thrived-especially after the union thugs blew up their trains which brought in the Feds.
The Rock Island, the Rutland, and I believe a few short lines, over the years succumbed after strikes and labor unrest. In all those cases, I don't think the strikers thought the companies would shut down.
The strike didn't help the RI, but it's demise was sealed when a reorganization plan was rejected in January 1980.
Before the liquidation was ordered, the RI being operated by the Kansas City Terminal under ICC directed service orders, had started an engineer's class. Even with liquidation looming the class had to continue under the union contracts. The class graduated on Friday, March 28 1980. That morning, the General Roadforeman of Engines told the class that there would be some last minute savior. That they would all retire of the RI.
Later that day the GRFE went back to the class and told them it wasn't to be. They could go back to their respective home terminals and need not bother to mark up on the engineer's extra boards. The KCT directed service ended the next Monday, March 31 1980 and the RI shut down operations.
The person that related that story said he went on to work for other railroads, but never worked anywhere as an engineer.
While the data is a decade old (2013) - the following report displays the 'acknowledged' recrew on CSX by operating division and month. There are 'actual recrews' that got reported through a different data stream that are not a part of this report.
In some circles, Henry Crown and the Crown family were the villains in the collapse of the Rock Island. They held a large amount of Rock Island's debt and pushed for liquidation almost from the outset. As it turned out, all of the debt was paid off after the various parts of the railroad were sold off and the bankruptcy was withdrawn.
NW authorized power-backs on all DC-9 types, 727s, and CV580 (a prop) while I worked there. The 727 was unique in that #2 (the center engine) wasn't needed to power-back. Got sand-blasted hundreds of times.
Fun facts about powering back: the pilots had to put their feet on the floor,not the rudder pedals as they double as the brake pedals. You never gave the stop signal while powering back, only a come ahead signal to quit the manuver. You always started forward before going backwards to make sure the main landing gear brakes had actually released.
Backshop BLS53 Other airlines experimented with the reverse thrust method during that timeframe as well. It only worked with the high, rear mounted engines, dominant at the time. Newer aircraft, with the large, wing mounted engines, made the method undoable, and it was discontinued. Correct. Northwest did it with their DC9s all the time. My brother was an FO on them.
Correct. Northwest did it with their DC9s all the time. My brother was an FO on them.
CSSHEGEWISCH In some circles, Henry Crown and the Crown family were the villains in the collapse of the Rock Island. They held a large amount of Rock Island's debt and pushed for liquidation almost from the outset. As it turned out, all of the debt was paid off after the various parts of the railroad were sold off and the bankruptcy was withdrawn.
https://kdvr.com/news/local/man-killed-after-crash-at-motorsports-park-near-aspen/
croteaudd Remember Eastern Airlines? Labor had become so antagonistic towards a ruthless management they preferred the destruction of the company over solving problems! Has such an atmosphere developed among ONE of the Class I railroads?
Larenzo could play both sides as Continental was somewhat union-free, while Eastern was heavily unionized. He cherry-picked assets from Eastern and transferred them to Continental and let Eastern spiral into the ground.
rrnut282 croteaudd Remember Eastern Airlines? Labor had become so antagonistic towards a ruthless management they preferred the destruction of the company over solving problems! Has such an atmosphere developed among ONE of the Class I railroads? There was more than just labor issues going on. Remember, at the end Eastern was owned by Frank Lorenzo who also owned Continental, Texas International and one that escapes me. He siphoned assets from Eastern to Continental. One egregious example is the computer reservation system that Continental took over and charged Eastern to use its own system. Lorenzo could play both sides as Continental was somewhat union-free, while Eastern was heavily unionized. He cherry-picked assets from Eastern and transferred them to Continental and let Eastern spiral into the ground.
There was more than just labor issues going on. Remember, at the end Eastern was owned by Frank Lorenzo who also owned Continental, Texas International and one that escapes me. He siphoned assets from Eastern to Continental. One egregious example is the computer reservation system that Continental took over and charged Eastern to use its own system.
Lorenzo could play both sides as Continental was somewhat union-free, while Eastern was heavily unionized. He cherry-picked assets from Eastern and transferred them to Continental and let Eastern spiral into the ground.
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