surf line blocked at San Clemente

[paulcap]

How does BNSF route freight into/outof San Diego with the surf line temporary closed?

[Erik_Mag]

Unless the SD&AE line has been re-opened, the answer is that they don't. Freight will have to be trucked in or out.

I have no idea of how long the line will be closed, could be a few days or possibly up to a few months.

[mudchicken]

They don't.

The slides have been an issue for generations and are beyond the railroad's control. The problem starts well off the R/W.

[CMStPnP]

They need to go surfin with that train.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDb303T-B1w

 

[MidlandMike]

Didn't some freight trains continue to run while passenger service was halted at the land slip/stabilization project site a little bit further down the line to the south?

[Erik_Mag]

Yes, but all traffic was halted through the slide area this time.

Did see frequent Coaster service tis afternoon attending the Encinitas street fair.

[azrail]

I don't know if there is a way to totally fix the problem. There is no other place to relocate  the line.

[Overmod]

azrail

I don't know if there is a way to totally fix the problem. There is no other place to relocate  the line.

The only real 'solution' that doesn't involve the usual showstoppers 'as much' is to elevate the line on Chinese-style self-launched viaduct construction.  Wishfully thinking, this could be done esthetically enough not to create the usual Harbor Freeway waterfront disaster.  And it might have inherent electrification provisions in its construction...

[Fred M Cain]

I just can't help but wonder how all this would've panned out had BNSF still actually owned the line.  My guess is that if it were important to them, they would've had it at least somewhat repaired and up and running in a few days.

A couple of years ago there was a bad forest fire in the northern part of the state that took out some major bridges.  Although that is a different situation, there were predictions that the line would be closed for at least a month or so if not longer.  The YouPee had it up and running in a few days.

That's the way private businesses do business.

[Fred M Cain]

Overmod

 

 

azrail

I don't know if there is a way to totally fix the problem. There is no other place to relocate  the line.

 

 

The only real 'solution' that doesn't involve the usual showstoppers 'as much' is to elevate the line on Chinese-style self-launched viaduct construction.  Wishfully thinking, this could be done esthetically enough not to create the usual Harbor Freeway waterfront disaster.  And it might have inherent electrification provisions in its construction...

 

 

I dunno.  I think that if sufficient rip-rap was dumped in there, they'd probably be able to reopen the line long enough to seek a more permanent fix.

One plan was suggested to completely relocate the line on an alignment further east near I-5.  SHEESH ~ !  The way the government does things, that's probably take years.

[Overmod]

Fred M Cain

I think that if sufficient rip-rap was dumped in there, they'd probably be able to reopen the line long enough to seek a more permanent fix.

I don't think that's the real issue here -- we had a thread here a couple of months ago that showed how equipment, including a sizable cement mixer truck, was moved to one of these areas that required work.  There would likely be some EIS issues around the riprap and its placement, but that shouldn't be too much work for the lawyers and the 'Government liaisons' of various kinds.

The slide issue is far more important, and no amount of riprap will address it.  Even slope remediation, or the usual sorts of stabilization like bracing or geotextiles, are impossible for 'ecologically' based reasons or concerns.  The only method short of the radical line realignments that have been discussed (look at a topo map if you need to understand what is involved in new alignments) is to elevate the section through San Clemente in a way that keeps it 'well above the waves' while permitting locals easy access across the ROW... that pretty much means an esthetically-designed viaduct, and to elevate the areas in the 'slide' regions so that any slips don't block the track or damage its alignment... again, that would probably indicate some type of viaduct.

That sort of project won't work without using some form of self-launching construction, probably with the necessary piers designed like 'cutwaters on steroids' immediately adjacent to the existing track to facilitate access to placing the supports and foundations for the self-launching equipment.  This simplifies keeping current operations fluid and at least making staging and provisioning of the precast elements doable.

One plan was suggested to completely relocate the line on an alignment further east near I-5.  SHEESH ~ !  The way the government does things, that's probably take years.

As I recall, that alignment could only work for HSR-scale construction budgets, especially in some of the mountainous regions along the highway.  Extending some sort of route between that ROW and some connection to the Surf Line or one of the old routes out of San Diego is its own interesting problem -- presumably addressed at some point by CAHSR as any sort of high-speed rail "to San Diego" even as pathetic as the extension into San Francisco up the peninsula would require it.

[Fred M Cain]

Erik_Mag

Unless the SD&AE line has been re-opened, the answer is that they don't. Freight will have to be trucked in or out.

I have no idea of how long the line will be closed, could be a few days or possibly up to a few months.

 

Erik,

 

I’m glad you brought up the subject of the SD&AE line.  That line is most definitely closed – at least as a through route.  However, what I’m wondering about is the possibility as to whether or not serious and perhaps even permanent disruptions on the “Surf Line” might just spark interest in getting the line rebuilt and open again.

 

Rails and ties remain in place along the entire line as far as I am aware.  I think there is a section of it in Baja California that is still active, and there is also a railroad museum near Campo that runs on a short section of it.  The “You Pee” runs on the Plaster City-El Centro section.

 

Unfortunately, there is a long, moribund stretch of it that has seen little or no maintenance for at least 20 years.  The route has been reopened and later closed again at least three times; I think.

 

Most of the line would need new ties and probably quite a bit of new rail as well.  Some bridges would surely need to be replaced.  Tunnels would need to be enlarged to accommodate double stacks.

 

But one insidious problem is the need to cross the international border with Mexico twice.  Freight that originates and terminates in the U.S. would need to be cleared by customs twice.  I think this issue is part of the reason that the old SP wanted out in addition to the fact that it was an expensive line to maintain.

 

At one time, up until the early 1950s, the SP ran through freights from San Diego to Yuma via El Centro, Mexicali and Algodoñes. East of Algodoñes the line crossed back into the U.S. and joined the Mainline at a junction known as Araz, I think, which was/is  few miles west of Yuma.  This actually caused shipments to cross the border FOUR times.

 

The SP abandoned the line through Algodoñes to Araz in the mid or late 1950s, I think it was, preferring to send through traffic on a circuitous route from El Centro north to Niland before proceeding east again.  Then, in the 1970s, a torrential downpour in the Laguna Mountains from a dying tropical storm created a major washout near Jacumba.

 

The SP threw in the towel and filed an application with the ICC to abandon the line but the ICC denied it and they were forced to repair the damage. 

 

Not long after the SP repaired and reopened the line, they sold it to a short line operator.  Since then, it’s been operated on-again, off-again, but I don’t believe any through trains have operated from San Diego through to El Centro since the early years of the new millennium.

 

 

Is it worth it to rebuild this line?  I’d just love to see it but with so much difficult baggage, I’d be surprised to see this ever happen.  I’m also not sure just how much freight or potential freight the San Diego area might generate.

 

The You Pee would have deep enough pockets to do it but I doubt it will ever happen but, then again, I’m somewhat of a pessimist.  Another problem, dare I say this? Is that the State of California has become a rather difficult place politically to do business.

 

So, for the foreseeable future, I’m afraid it will just continue to lie out there with the rail rusting in the hot sun.

[Overmod]

The chief disaster on the SD&AE was, and probably is, the tunnels.  They all have to be opened up to modern clearances and then properly lined and portaled so further caving-in is prevented.

Then you can take up the issue of other erosion on the embankments, which in my opinion should be addressed with geotextile.  I don't know what needs to be done with the viaducts and bridges, but I think it's been discussed.

Just as with Canada, if you have locked and secured COFC/TOFC I think something could be worked out with Mexico for the actual international running.  But you'd still need some way to keep people from jumping on the train and 'riding the rods' across the border... drones and dogs and sensors, oh my!