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NS Fatality in Cleveland several weeks ago.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 24, 2023 1:25 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The size of the dump truck suggests that it is an off-road vehicle similar to those seen in open-pit mines.  Since this is a private crossing on a private road on an industry site, I'm not sure if this is even within FRA jurisdiction.

With a Class 1 railroad being involved - it is in FRA jurisdiction.  Were it to have been the industry's engine and crew and they were not deemed railroad employees then jurisdiction could be questioned.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tdmidget on Saturday, March 25, 2023 7:54 AM

130 feet is 38.624 meters

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Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, March 27, 2023 11:49 AM

Note the elevation of the cab relative to the tank cars.  Not only would the off-road dump truck driver have to crane his neck excessively to see down the track, he would also have to look down to see the end of the tank car in close proximity.  With the cab on the left side, when looking down, there is a very large blind spot for the driver.  About the only part of the car high enough for the driver to see easily is the railing around the dome.  Not a lot of reflective surface there.  

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Monday, March 27, 2023 12:18 PM

Just a note here, but I notice no mention of the word “mirror” so far in this discussion.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, March 27, 2023 7:49 PM

ChuckCobleigh
Just a note here, but I notice no mention of the word “mirror” so far in this discussion.

Give Euclid time... he'll get around to it.

Problem is, a mirror that would have helped in this case would be stupendous in size and required support structure, and might then pose an outsized risk if sun angle turned it into an enormous floodlight.  That's true even if you used a convex mirror to increase the field of view... with the accompanying proviso that 'images in this mirror are more distant than they appear'.

Mirrors or periscopes on offroad trucks won't last, either.  No matter how draconian a mandate you try to introduce for them.  Hell, we live in a country that can't even make SPAF mandates work effectively... when it matters.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 27, 2023 8:42 PM

Overmod
 
ChuckCobleigh
Just a note here, but I notice no mention of the word “mirror” so far in this discussion. 

Give Euclid time... he'll get around to it. 

Problem is, a mirror that would have helped in this case would be stupendous in size and required support structure, and might then pose an outsized risk if sun angle turned it into an enormous floodlight.  That's true even if you used a convex mirror to increase the field of view... with the accompanying proviso that 'images in this mirror are more distant than they appear'.

Mirrors or periscopes on offroad trucks won't last, either.  No matter how draconian a mandate you try to introduce for them.  Hell, we live in a country that can't even make SPAF mandates work effectively... when it matters.

Glass around a steel mill doesn't remain 'clear' very long.

Worked at B&O's Clark Ave yard in Cleveland which was adjacent to a operating steel mill (J&L I think).  Tried to clean the windows on the outside - all the fumes from the mill's operation had turned the outside of the glass into a rust colored sandpaper like surface.  I would imagine the glass surfaces on any form of equipment that calls a mill home, will deteriorate over time - short or long.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, March 27, 2023 11:45 PM

I'm guessing the post refers to a vehicle mounted mirror.  A mirror would also have to be psotioned right for it to be of any benefit. 

While I'm guessing, I would expect the dump truck had mirrors for the blind side of the vehicle. 

I expect that a blanket instruction, rather than only for specific locations, will be issued to stop and have a trainman on the ground before shoving over a crossing with passive warning, public or private.  Even if there is no vehicle traffic in sight. 

There's a reason right there for a conductor on the train.

Jeff

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 28, 2023 11:21 AM

jeffhergert
There's a reason right there for a conductor on the train.

jeffhergert
There's a reason right there for a conductor on the train.
On the other hand, had the train been single-manned or RCO operated, there would have been no one exposed on the point of the shove to be crushed... Whistling

Here's another potential Euclid triumph: make a version of the Google Street View camera with limited arc, and incorporate it in an EOT device so that it can be panned and tilted by the engineer or RCO operator to get 'haptic space' at the point of the shove.

Incorporate all the bells, whistles, and steerable lights you want on the same device.  If it loses RF communication for any reason... set up manual flagging.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 28, 2023 11:25 AM

Overmod
 
jeffhergert
There's a reason right there for a conductor on the train. 

On the other hand, had the train been single-manned or RCO operated, there would have been no one exposed on the point of the shove to be crushed... Whistling 

Here's another potential Euclid triumph: make a version of the Google Street View camera with limited arc, and incorporate it in an EOT device so that it can be panned and tilted by the engineer or RCO operator to get 'haptic space' at the point of the shove.

Incorporate all the bells, whistles, and steerable lights you want on the same device.  If it loses RF communication for any reason... set up manual flagging.

Blind shoves!  Yep that's the ticket! [/sarcasm]

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 28, 2023 11:33 AM

BaltACD
Blind shoves!  Yep that's the ticket! [/s]

Precisely the reason for the little whistling emoticon...

You may chuckle at the idea of a virtual-reality RCO... but it would assuredly save lives, and it would NOT be a 'blind-leading-the-blind shove', as it were...

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