A recent co-worker retired engineer, w/45 yrs total service, is authoring a book on history of Santa Fe's Plains Div. Crafting together a text for the H&S (Hutchinson & Southern) Branch, which ran Hutchinson, KS to Ponca City, OK., is creating some head scratching. It appears that UP originally constructed segments of that right of way to build a mainline from McPherson, KS to the Gulf. That, of course, did not happen and SF took it over as a grain branch. The RI now enters the picture and this is what the author is attempting to uncover but needs help in finding accurate details that can be confirmed. Does anyone out there, w/ a detailed early Rock history knowledge, know if RI had rights over the H&S (ATSF) from Ponca through Blackwell and into Anthony in southern KS? It also appears that when UP was planning this gulf line that they gave up on, they had rights on RI from McPherson-Hutch and in return, RI was granted rights on UP Kancks-Topeka and in CO., Denver-Limon. The muesum in Blackwell has stated that RI did operate on SF through there into southern KS. If there are any sources or links that can be correct on tying the ends of all this together, chime in. Help is needed
[Deleted response]
You forgot to say what time period you're asking about. Before the timetables at
https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/and_timetables.html ?
On the defunct Rock Island Technical Societ, via the Wayback Machine, is a list of trackage rights the RI used. For Kansas, it lists using 26 miles from Caldwell to Anthony. Caldwell was the RI's division point between Herington and El Reno.
There is no listing of trackage rights used to Ponca City. Possibly RI used rights from Caldwell to Ponca City on an "as needed" basis or used while it's line was built into Ponca City.
Rock Island Trackage Rights (archive.org)
Jeff
Jeff's got it.
(1) CRIP had trackage rights on the ATSF Anthony District until ATSF abandoned it in pieces. They were going Anthony to Liberal as well (and then Liberal to Trinidad CO as well (Crossing the ATSF Boise City Sub at Castaneda (Ramsey) OK in the panhandle. (to connect with the southern Colorado coal fields and SP's ill-fated California & Arizona transcon plotted to come east out of Durango. (ATSF had a contract with the CRIP for the never-built line at Castaneda.))
(2) CRIP was trying to access the Oklahoma oil & gas field boom in the 1920s. There is an ICC application for the Rock to build a 20 mile line in Kay County from Ponca City to "Owens", wherever Owens is [ICC FD-4271] plus the 34 mile line extension from Billings to Tonkawa [FD-2921] as they tried to connect Ponca City and Enid
Anything before 1920 on trackage rights gets really hard to track (where the ICC card index begins)...Jeff's reference is not perfect, but it does fill in some holes.
ATSF REPORTING in the federal valuation dockets (circa 1925, Valuation Docket 625; 127-ICC-1 and 135-ICC-633) seem to contradict part of the claims on the former Hutchison & Southern line. (from ICC required GO-20 in that docket):
mudchicken Ponca City to "Owens", wherever Owens is
Right there on the map:
https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/id/4902/rec/1
OWTX mudchicken Ponca City to "Owens", wherever Owens is Right there on the map: https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/id/4902/rec/1
Satellite photos show what was likely a ROW running diagonally through that point. Moving south and west, it goes through Billings, Garber, and Breckinridge on the way to Enid.
The topo on Acme Mapper still shows CRI&P rails there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Thanks for the response information. These have been forwarded. The author of this project is Keel Middleton, who retired in December after 45 yrs working his entire career on Plains Div territory from Wellington and outlying stations. His book will be through the SF Historical Society. Anyone interested in this segment of the ATSF, keep checking on their web page for announcements.
Sam
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