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1950s Maps of Traffic Density or Line Tonnage

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1950s Maps of Traffic Density or Line Tonnage
Posted by mrmckenzie0 on Wednesday, November 23, 2022 4:53 PM

Anyone have any good sources for maps of Traffic Density/Ton-Miles/Trains-per-day in the transition era? I have plenty of information from 1970s and later and even some from the 1920s and 1930s for many RRs that must have been in some industry publication or another, but there's almost nothing I can find between 1940 and 1960 other than a handful of individual railroad maps culled from various issues of Trains or images saved off eBay over the years. In particular I'm looking for mainlines, I don't particularly need the details of every branch and sidetrack (though I wouldn't complain if something that detailed exists, which I'm pretty certain doesn't) and a broad overview would be awesome but I'm not averse to parsing through a bunch of smaller maps to extract the data I'm interested in. The only thing I really have in that vein is a 1950-ish map of signaled and mutiple track lines sourced from an old georgaphy journal, which is certainly useful, but doesn't tell a complete story (If I recall correctly it was more-or-less reproduced in Trains about 15 years ago).

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Posted by timz on Wednesday, November 30, 2022 10:31 AM

I scanned 1952 and 1962 AT&SF maps -- the 11x17 inch pieces are in my storage. I'll hunt them up.

Maybe you can see this 1962 upside-down sample -- if you're interested I can eventually find the rest of it, and the 1952

 https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/07bd81e6-3161-4ed3-bad0-ad2b35615e62

As I recall, if the number on a segment is 60 that means sixty times 100,000 ton-miles per mile, probably? net but maybe gross. The key will say, once I find it.

Sample of the 1952

 https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/f1e0d9da-1000-4b48-b536-47bca438f474

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, December 1, 2022 10:40 PM

The ICC reports are now in RG-134. Line up a qualified vendor/researcher at Archives-2 and hope that the desired data was properly indexed and filed. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by SALfan1 on Friday, December 2, 2022 9:04 PM

Not from the '50s, but there was a map in TRAINS a few years back containing projected post-merger traffic levels that was compiled before the Atlantic Coast Line/Seaboard Air Line merger.  You may be able to find similar maps in other merger documents.

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, December 5, 2022 8:59 AM

I find traffic density (tonnage) or train count maps of interest, either current or historic.  Difficult to locate.  Also collect old station reports of movements (usually from towers) or dispatch sheets.  I was fortunate to purchase an entire month of Conrail Indianapolis dispatch sheets covering from East St. Louis to Cleveland (1996).  Also collect old printed freight schedule books.

Multimodal website has quite a collection of scanned railroad historical info, including nearly complete Conrail freight schedules.  there are some traffic density maps on that website...not sure of railroads and timeframe.  

Will advise anything that is found.

 

Ed

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 5, 2022 4:08 PM

Besides the Multimodal sites, these two have a lot of information.

Moving the Freight | Documents and information about railroad freight operations.

The Wx4 Dome O' Foam  The Wx4 Card Catalog goes to the entire site contents.  The Wx4 Maps and Timetables goes directly to the time table, both employee and public, and other railroad items from some collections.

Jeff

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Posted by timz on Monday, December 5, 2022 6:56 PM

Santa Fe chart for 1952, in seven overlapping pieces, some of which are upright

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18OA8uBJZew0egiKCmbSRS0SR9iUp_zFm?usp=sharing

Santa Fe 1962

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AAJFdH8sFXp75-noeg-yrnrTY6hWp4Li?usp=sharing

I'll post the UP 1991 in a day or two.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 5, 2022 7:17 PM

jeffhergert
Besides the Multimodal sites, these two have a lot of information.

Moving the Freight | Documents and information about railroad freight operations.

The Wx4 Dome O' Foam  The Wx4 Card Catalog goes to the entire site contents.  The Wx4 Maps and Timetables goes directly to the time table, both employee and public, and other railroad items from some collections.

Jeff

Read down the Wx4 Dome O' Foam page to the exploding body.  

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by diningcar on Wednesday, December 7, 2022 8:14 AM

I found these maps, or tabulated data, to be lacking foreign line data when trackage rights applied because it was considered proprietary. Example: UP did not wish Santa Fe to have traffic data of their operation between Daggett and Riverside. 

If Santa Fe was using its traffic tonnage data to analyze track deteriorations it would have been meaningless without the UP tonnage. 

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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, December 8, 2022 12:45 PM

Jeff:

Cannot thank you enough for the links.

this will keep me occupied for quite a while.  I really appreciate those who scan and store these documents.  I try to collect as much as possible with the hopes of someday making them available to all.

Again, thanks for the links.

ed

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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, December 15, 2022 3:14 PM

I have been going thru the MoPac freight schedules from 1972...what an interesting publication.  Thanks Jeff (again) for that link.  

Next up will be the Frisco schedules.  

Brings up the interesting question...which was more valuable in the late 1970s as a free agent - MoPac or Frisco?  Obvious answer is MoPac with the E.St. Louis to Texas line and all of that chemical business coming out of Houston - New Orleans region, but Frisco provided an excellent route for the PRB coal off of the BN.  Frisco was also the basis for intermodal growth into the SE, although the Meridian Speedway provided a more direct route.

I spent a week at Arkansas State University in Jonesboro, Ark in 1972 at a basketball camp and was impressed with constant parade of Cotton Belt and Frisco trains which were visible from the 6th floor dorm room.  Frisco ran some serious freights.  

Ed

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, December 19, 2022 10:11 PM
 

MP173

 

Brings up the interesting question...which was more valuable in the late 1970s as a free agent - MoPac or Frisco?  Obvious answer is MoPac with the E.St. Louis to Texas line and all of that chemical business coming out of Houston - New Orleans region, but Frisco provided an excellent route for the PRB coal off of the BN.  Frisco was also the basis for intermodal growth into the SE, although the Meridian Speedway provided a more direct route.

 

I'd say both were well positioned in that time frame.. Matter of fact BN should've made a play for MoPac after Frisco.. Throw in the IC as well.

 

 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by MP173 on Tuesday, December 20, 2022 11:58 AM

Always been a "somewhat" fan of MoPac, probably due to riding from St. Louis to Pueblo in 1964.  By 1966 when we made another trip to Pueblo, the MoPac "Colorado Eagle" as gone and we took NW/UP "City of St. Louis" to Denver then Rio Grande down to Pueblo.  Return trip was from LaJuanta, Co on "Chief" to KC and then MoPac to St. Louis.

Reading Brosnan, it was interesting to review the MoPac - Southern flirtation.  Brosnan felt MoPac wanted to be the dominant carrier of the merged system and he quickly put an end to that.  

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Posted by ns145 on Thursday, December 22, 2022 1:11 PM

MP173

Always been a "somewhat" fan of MoPac, probably due to riding from St. Louis to Pueblo in 1964.  By 1966 when we made another trip to Pueblo, the MoPac "Colorado Eagle" as gone and we took NW/UP "City of St. Louis" to Denver then Rio Grande down to Pueblo.  Return trip was from LaJuanta, Co on "Chief" to KC and then MoPac to St. Louis.

Reading Brosnan, it was interesting to review the MoPac - Southern flirtation.  Brosnan felt MoPac wanted to be the dominant carrier of the merged system and he quickly put an end to that.  

 

He was right.  The "MoPac Mafia" took over the UP after the merger:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,960938,nodelay=1

For confirmation, take a look at the officers listed on the covers of late era MP system timetables, then look at format of and officers listed on early post-merger UP system timetables.

The Southern had a strong distaste of the N&W for similar reasons, but after the CSX merger they had no one else to turn to.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 22, 2022 4:29 PM

ns145
 
MP173

Always been a "somewhat" fan of MoPac, probably due to riding from St. Louis to Pueblo in 1964.  By 1966 when we made another trip to Pueblo, the MoPac "Colorado Eagle" as gone and we took NW/UP "City of St. Louis" to Denver then Rio Grande down to Pueblo.  Return trip was from LaJuanta, Co on "Chief" to KC and then MoPac to St. Louis.

Reading Brosnan, it was interesting to review the MoPac - Southern flirtation.  Brosnan felt MoPac wanted to be the dominant carrier of the merged system and he quickly put an end to that.   

He was right.  The "MoPac Mafia" took over the UP after the merger:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,960938,nodelay=1

For confirmation, take a look at the officers listed on the covers of late era MP system timetables, then look at format of and officers listed on early post-merger UP system timetables.

The Southern had a strong distaste of the N&W for similar reasons, but after the CSX merger they had no one else to turn to.

Believe it or not there is a B&O connection through the MoPac Mafia.  Art Shoener was the son of a B&O Engineer in Garrett, IN.  Went to Evansville University and hired out on MoPac after graduation.  He was in control during one of UP's melt downs and walked the plank for it.  He stayed out of the industry for several years and was hired by KCS at a high level for several years and to my understanding retired in the mid 2000 decade.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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