A track bulletin today announced the pending discontinuance of cab signals over most of UP's cab signal territory. Both UP's Coded Cab Signal and exCNW Automatic Train Control will be retired June 1st. There are a few subdivisions, or portions thereof in the Wyoming and northwest lines that will retain CCS for the time being. I imagine some changes needed to discontinue cab signals has not been completed on those sections.
On the lines across Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Illinois, no longer will a lead engine need to be cab signal equipped. This means foriegn power will be able to lead on those formerly equipped lines. UP has been running trains with PTC, but an equipped leader, one that had passed a departure test, was required even though the cab signals weren't used unless PTC failed.
Jeff
Once upon a time (until sometime in the 1970s?) UP freights east from Ogden were allowed to have a foreign unit on the point, SP or WP or whatever. Was it UP's idea to quit allowing that, or was it a new rule by FRA or somebody?
This may be premature on UP's part to start deactivating its CSS.. I imagine Jeff will keep us in the loop if this was the right move or not.
If PTC is operatioal on any subdivision, I don't see any carrier continuing to maintain any other forms of Train Control or Cab Signals or other forms of 'old fashioned' signal logic on PTC line.
On lines that are no operation PTC I suspect, if they have Train Control or Cab Signals those forms of operation will continue, unless traffic on those lines has materially decreased to about 1 train a day for the foreseeable future.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Will Metra trains on UP also stop using cab control signals? Long safe record. Will PTC really be as reliable and safe?
- Ed Kyle
Ed KyleWill Metra trains on UP also stop using cab control signals? Long safe record. Will PTC really be as reliable and safe? - Ed Kyle
Have PTC installations achieved the status of fully unrestricted operations in all circumstance?
When PTC was initially activated it was activated as a 'real world test' to discover the unforseen 'bugs' and logical inconsistenties within the application. During the test period (which to my knowledge was open ended) each carrier established special multi disciplinary 'Help Desks' to handle and resolve any questionable happenings in the real world operation of PTC.
I have not seen any articles concerning the interoperatability of PTC among the equipment of one carrier operating on another carrier? Especially Amtrak that has equipment operating on all Class 1 carriers as well as a number of other nominally commuter carriers.
We've been running PTC with the cab signals cut out for sometime now. We only use the cab signals if PTC fails enroute. Because the cab signals were a fall back option, lead engines still needed to have an equipped and tested engine. Often I would have to cut in the cab signals, run the departure test and then once passed sign the card and cut out the cab signals.
Now that won't be necessary after June 1st.
As part of the petition to discontinue cab signals, UP has to integrate the hand throw switches so that PTC recognizes how they are lined. It also will immediately know if a hand throw switch is opened in front of the train. Before being "wired in" all PTC knew was that a switch was within the signal block. If opened before a train entered that block, it would protect the switch and query the engineer on the PTC screen as to how it was lined. Options were normal or reversed using picture symbols. The engineer would push the soft key for proper position. Now PTC should know how a switch is lined.
Before being wired in, if the switch was opened after the train had entered the block (passed the governing block signal) it did not know if the switch had been opened. That allowed the accident at Stanwood IA to happen a couple of summers back.
The only thing PTC still won't have that cab signals would is broken rail protection. If a rail should break within the block the train is in, PTC wouldn't know it. But that's no different than regular, non-cab signal ABS or CTC. Once within the block there's nothing to register a change in condition. A rail breaking immediately in front of a train is rare.
I an guessing that the two or three subdivisions that still require cab signalled leaders is due to the integrating of switches not being completed.
PTC is more restrictive and protects more items than cab signals do. It gives more information on what's coming up then cab signals or block signals do because it gives a view 6 miles ahead.
I'll miss the ATC and CCS somewhat. I won't miss when ATC picked up dead (nonenergized) track and required going to suppression and getting down to 15 mph until energized track is again reached. That action and some of these extra long trains don't mix well. Having to set that much air caused quite a few break in twos over the years. One reason the UP has always wanted to get rid of the ATC, even before PTC came along.
PS. We still have a PTC help desk. To help with any problems or to make the determination that PTC has failed on a specific engine.
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