mudchicken Murphy Siding It seems like it would be real simple to put up something equivilent to a tell-tale type thing on the side of the tracks that matches the width of the clearance. If the rider bonked into a lightweight sign instead of something solid, the outcome would be way better. As an aside, the BNSF had us replace signs that said "No clearance" at the sides of our ramp because they were faded, so someone at BNSF checks things like that in our area. If the sign was missing or removed, would that person have seen the issue that caused placement of the sign? (I assume in your case the issue is a dock or a gate with a wrong sized opening - Top two clearance issues)
Murphy Siding It seems like it would be real simple to put up something equivilent to a tell-tale type thing on the side of the tracks that matches the width of the clearance. If the rider bonked into a lightweight sign instead of something solid, the outcome would be way better. As an aside, the BNSF had us replace signs that said "No clearance" at the sides of our ramp because they were faded, so someone at BNSF checks things like that in our area.
It seems like it would be real simple to put up something equivilent to a tell-tale type thing on the side of the tracks that matches the width of the clearance. If the rider bonked into a lightweight sign instead of something solid, the outcome would be way better. As an aside, the BNSF had us replace signs that said "No clearance" at the sides of our ramp because they were faded, so someone at BNSF checks things like that in our area.
If the sign was missing or removed, would that person have seen the issue that caused placement of the sign? (I assume in your case the issue is a dock or a gate with a wrong sized opening - Top two clearance issues)
Signs in many cases CREATE clearance issues themselves.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
They've had vertical warnings, in the form of telltales, for nearly two centuries.
The problem with the equivalent for many 'zero clearance' areas is putting the warning close enough to the actual obstruction to matter. Just having the equivalent of a painted line or barrier 'you must be at least this tall to ride this ride' as you're going into the plant or facility, or a loading-gage bar or breakaway somewhere on the track approaching the area, won't replace the sign or warning paint right at the hazard itself.
Euclid BaltACD Euclid tree68 BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows. Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow. So how does a railroad get more of those ideal stockholders instead of those that just want a quick buck? The quick buckers are endemic to the 21st Century World. Bean counters think they control the world; they only care about extracting the last penny out of their victims before rigor mortise sets in on the financial corpse they leave behind. Well if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon?
BaltACD Euclid tree68 BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows. Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow. So how does a railroad get more of those ideal stockholders instead of those that just want a quick buck? The quick buckers are endemic to the 21st Century World. Bean counters think they control the world; they only care about extracting the last penny out of their victims before rigor mortise sets in on the financial corpse they leave behind.
Euclid tree68 BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows. Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow. So how does a railroad get more of those ideal stockholders instead of those that just want a quick buck?
tree68 BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows. Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow.
BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad
If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad
You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows.
Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow.
So how does a railroad get more of those ideal stockholders instead of those that just want a quick buck?
The quick buckers are endemic to the 21st Century World. Bean counters think they control the world; they only care about extracting the last penny out of their victims before rigor mortise sets in on the financial corpse they leave behind.
Well if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon?
Please stop with the interrogative argumentation. If you have a point to make, make it.
Psychot Euclid BaltACD Euclid tree68 BEAUSABRE If it weren't for the "Wall Street Trash" (aka the owners), you wouldn't have a railroad You're right. The issue is the "investors" who are in it for the quick buck and not for growth over time. Ideally, a stockholder in the railroad should be interested in seeing their money put to best use to generate more money, so their portfolio grows. Those investors looking for the quick buck only care about what shows up in their checkbook tomorrow. So how does a railroad get more of those ideal stockholders instead of those that just want a quick buck? The quick buckers are endemic to the 21st Century World. Bean counters think they control the world; they only care about extracting the last penny out of their victims before rigor mortise sets in on the financial corpse they leave behind. Well if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon? Please stop with the interrogative argumentation. If you have a point to make, make it.
I just did.
Balt: No disagreement on the issue of "Signs in many cases CREATE clearance issues themselves" .....been there, seen that - far too many industry track owners are clueless. (and certain railroad employees are not much better) ....failures like the one on NS are so preventable. Obvious/preventable rules violations are so rediculously frustrating. Hate that.
As to the installation of tell-tales, that's an accident looking for a place to happen. Tell-tales in theory are supposed to come in contact with inanimate objects.
Overmod They've had vertical warnings, in the form of telltales, for nearly two centuries. The problem with the equivalent for many 'zero clearance' areas is putting the warning close enough to the actual obstruction to matter. Just having the equivalent of a painted line or barrier 'you must be at least this tall to ride this ride' as you're going into the plant or facility, or a loading-gage bar or breakaway somewhere on the track approaching the area, won't replace the sign or warning paint right at the hazard itself.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I would prefer that my people get off at the sign or ahead of the obstruction. I recently did an accident survey where the industry added a fence to the end of the dock (stupid plant engineer/ maintenance people guessed where to put it) vitually overnight. Poor switchman couldn't climb fast enough and couldn't stop the cut fast enough to avoid coming into contact with the fence after discovering the new addition to the dock when it came into view in the dark.
If you ever have an outfit re-striping your parking lot, hope you have them stripe the foul zone on the dock (preferably 10 ft from centerline of track) and make sure the bridge plate is stored behind that line (along with anything else) when not in use. Paint the face of the dock yellow inside the foul zone- cheap insurance for the price of some yellow traffic paint with glass beads in it .
... When doing ALTA/Mortgage insurance surveys around tracks in commercial areas we will note any measured clearance violation found. Title companies hate this and try to get those notes removed. (We won't do it - perceived loss in value is no reason to overide a safety liability or ignore it. We report improvements and conditions found.)
EuclidWell if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon?
If that happened I'd predict a devolution to the way things used to be, that is no Big Seven (or is it six now?) but smaller railroads cross-country picking up where the failed giants left off.
Which might not be such a bad thing. The regionals seem to be a lot more agressive in soliciting business and a lot more customer-centric when they get it.
Flintlock76 Euclid Well if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon? If that happened I'd predict a devolution to the way things used to be, that is no Big Seven (or is it six now?) but smaller railroads cross-country picking up where the failed giants left off. Which might not be such a bad thing. The regionals seem to be a lot more agressive in soliciting business and a lot more customer-centric when they get it.
Euclid Well if there is no solution to the problem, and it leaves railroads as a financial corpse, will the railroad business simply come to an end soon?
Euclid How do the regionals react to PSR?
That's a good question. The only regional I'm aware of with issues perporting to be of PSR origin is one that runs in Maryland and Delaware, either the Delmarva Central or the Maryland & Delaware. One (or both) have had shipment delay problems from N-S, a PSR practitioner. But I haven't read of anything lately. Maybe it's been corrected by now.
If there's others around the country other posters will have to sound off on the subject.
By the way, both the Delmarva Central and the Maryland & Delaware have an excellent reputation for customer service.
mudchickenIf you ever have an outfit re-striping your parking lot, hope you have them stripe the foul zone on the dock (preferably 10 ft from centerline of track) and make sure the bridge plate is stored behind that line (along with anything else) when not in use. Paint the face of the dock yellow inside the foul zone- cheap insurance for the price of some yellow traffic paint with glass beads in it .
And for god's sake, don't be grabbing stuff with the forklift on the end of the dock if the train crew is there. Seriously, we won't be here long - go grab a coffee or take a pee break.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Sounds like good fodder for a tool box safety meeting on the industry's side of the foul zone.
What a thread. A two-fer going on.
Regarding the close clearance on yard tracks. Besides written special instructions, they could attach a small sign to the switch stand, or a stand alone sign, as a reminder that cars can't be ridden on those specific tracks.
I remember discussing grab irons and side ladders years ago with a guy who had retired. He said he thought the requirements for the limits (max and min) between the car body and the grab iron/ladders should be revisited since people in general are bigger than they were years ago.
I think we are going to see a rule making it easier for shippers/receivers to invoke a forced access/reciprocal switching rule. It's been available since 1980, but has been somewhat vague on certain issues. A new rule making it easier to use is kind of what the hearings were for.
If a new regulation is placed in service, it might affect the ultra profibility of railroads. Not enough to bankrupt the class ones, but maybe enough to get the short term, activist, want it all today, types out of the industry.
Jeff
zugmann mudchicken If you ever have an outfit re-striping your parking lot, hope you have them stripe the foul zone on the dock (preferably 10 ft from centerline of track) and make sure the bridge plate is stored behind that line (along with anything else) when not in use. Paint the face of the dock yellow inside the foul zone- cheap insurance for the price of some yellow traffic paint with glass beads in it . And for god's sake, don't be grabbing stuff with the forklift on the end of the dock if the train crew is there. Seriously, we won't be here long - go grab a coffee or take a pee break.
mudchicken If you ever have an outfit re-striping your parking lot, hope you have them stripe the foul zone on the dock (preferably 10 ft from centerline of track) and make sure the bridge plate is stored behind that line (along with anything else) when not in use. Paint the face of the dock yellow inside the foul zone- cheap insurance for the price of some yellow traffic paint with glass beads in it .
I always stand on the loading dock side so I can keep an eye on the morons. Wouldn't put it past them to drive into the side of the cars as we're pulling out of there, or go off the dock and into the gap where the cars used to be.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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