greyhoundsI wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad. mudchicken If you were the El Grande Heffe of the Yellow Peril, your Operations manager would simply report back that there is no money to be made in moving potatoes because of the restrictions imposed by the post-PSR regime driven by finance and the lack of "service" that that demands If I were in that position (dream on) his/her giving such a response would cause me to consider requiring him/her to find another source of income. Such a response would indicate that he/she doesn’t understand the micro-economics of our firm. And that should be the first requirement for any high-level position in any company. Railroads are volume driven. Up to the point of congestion, more volume equals lower average costs per load. Get the freight on the railroad if it covers its incremental costs. Adding some potato loads to an existing train cost but few extra bucks. But it can kick up revenue big time. Also, and furthermore, and henceforth, that’s why you’ve got to include the finance people in the assignment. You want the money folks understanding and supporting the endeavor. Not fighting it.
mudchicken If you were the El Grande Heffe of the Yellow Peril, your Operations manager would simply report back that there is no money to be made in moving potatoes because of the restrictions imposed by the post-PSR regime driven by finance and the lack of "service" that that demands
andrewjonathon It would be great to see more fruit and veggies move to the rails. But over the years there have been so many false starts it leaves me a little skeptical where this will end up.
It would be great to see more fruit and veggies move to the rails. But over the years there have been so many false starts it leaves me a little skeptical where this will end up.
More perishables on the rails as a whole; eggs, flowers, meats, etc. I'll add mergers can help increase market share from the Midwest by eliminating the artificial barrier in the Mississippi region. No C1's will short haul this traffic.
andrewjonathonI wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad.
I don't see PSR as having anything to do with this.
While this is likely a one time move, I'm sure the farmers and Maine Northern are hoping that this will lead to something next year.
https://www.wagmtv.com/app/2022/01/15/maine-potatoes-head-west-coast/?fbclid=IwAR0WEtSuZq-9OnIOOII4qwAmeGYmPsYTqLGziyEcOyoboOlPF_BbfZ9UAeo
I'd like to know more about that deck system that allows them to "Double Stack" the potatoes inside the railcar.
Look at the build date on that UP reefer car. January 2021. Great to see.
And where do we go from here? Look for opportunities and solve the problems.
I wonder if the taters are being trucked from the field (or a packing facility) to a location where they're loaded on the just-emptied reefers for the West (at a backhaul rate).
greyhounds andrewjonathon I wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad. The facility in Wallua, WA has been sold to Tiger Cool Express. UP hasn’t given up on the business, they’ve just found an entity who knows how to manage it. Tiger Cool is a successful start up formed to move perishables by rail intermodal. They’re building an IM terminal in Wallua but will continue to load reefer cars where that service is appropriate. The UP itself has lost most of its institutional knowledge regarding the movement of perishable products. Thank you, Federal Government. Once such knowledge is lost it takes years and years and years to recover. Tiger Cool has the knowledge. As an example, UP tried to move the produce out of Wallua in unit trains. A really bad concept. The trains ran once, maybe twice, per week to one single terminal in the east. This delayed perishable shipments and drove trucking delivery cost through the roof. It also meant they couldn’t serve major markets such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. But some dork(s) in Omaha wanted unit trains. In short, the UP didn’t know what it was doing. The UP seems to have gotten past its boutique unit train fetish, but they’ve got to regroup on serving this market. They’re doing that. As to “Actively discouraging any non mega shippers", what should they do? They were out of terminal capacity and chassis in places such as Chicago. They have contracts with UPS, FedEx, JB Hunt, Hub Group, etc. They should protect their large, regular customers. You don’t stiff those guys in favor of some shipper who doesn’t use your service unless he can’t get a truck. They allocated scarce capacity to their regular customers. That’s what they needed to do and they did it. I don't see PSR as having anything to do with this.
andrewjonathon I wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad.
The train was ran at the behest of a customer, RailEx. Not a true unit train, it was operated for one customer from their originating facility to their terminal facility. If UP had any say that the move had to be as a unit, it was probably the only way RailEx could get the railroad interested in servicing them. It seems that the railroad would rather run off business and eliminate a switch engine anytime possible.
It started out with one train per week, usually about 30 cars long. Then developed into two and sometimes three per week. Another facility was opened in California. Both sent trains to the New York facility. The cars moved back mostly empty. Infrequently would there be a loaded car going back.
RailEx was planning on adding a facility in the southeast US.
UP's mistake was buying RailEx in the first place. They should've just let them be and build up the business.
Jeff
greyhounds I'd like to know more about that deck system that allows them to "Double Stack" the potatoes inside the railcar. Look at the build date on that UP reefer car. January 2021. Great to see. And where do we go from here? Look for opportunities and solve the problems.
Doesn't look like they're using a traditional rack system. It appears from the video they're just placing planks across the 1st tier. Then stacking on it. If this business keeps up possibly they'll invest in a true racking system that does away with using dunnage, and/or blocking and bracing.
On another note. If the STB approves CSX's acquisition of Pan Am Railways, plus these potatoes are still moving in the future. This service could see an increase in speed by eliminating another interchange. Maybe growth as well?
jeffhergert greyhounds andrewjonathon I wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad. The facility in Wallua, WA has been sold to Tiger Cool Express. UP hasn’t given up on the business, they’ve just found an entity who knows how to manage it. Tiger Cool is a successful start up formed to move perishables by rail intermodal. They’re building an IM terminal in Wallua but will continue to load reefer cars where that service is appropriate. The UP itself has lost most of its institutional knowledge regarding the movement of perishable products. Thank you, Federal Government. Once such knowledge is lost it takes years and years and years to recover. Tiger Cool has the knowledge. As an example, UP tried to move the produce out of Wallua in unit trains. A really bad concept. The trains ran once, maybe twice, per week to one single terminal in the east. This delayed perishable shipments and drove trucking delivery cost through the roof. It also meant they couldn’t serve major markets such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. But some dork(s) in Omaha wanted unit trains. In short, the UP didn’t know what it was doing. The UP seems to have gotten past its boutique unit train fetish, but they’ve got to regroup on serving this market. They’re doing that. As to “Actively discouraging any non mega shippers", what should they do? They were out of terminal capacity and chassis in places such as Chicago. They have contracts with UPS, FedEx, JB Hunt, Hub Group, etc. They should protect their large, regular customers. You don’t stiff those guys in favor of some shipper who doesn’t use your service unless he can’t get a truck. They allocated scarce capacity to their regular customers. That’s what they needed to do and they did it. I don't see PSR as having anything to do with this. The train was ran at the behest of a customer, RailEx. Not a true unit train, it was operated for one customer from their originating facility to their terminal facility. If UP had any say that the move had to be as a unit, it was probably the only way RailEx could get the railroad interested in servicing them. It seems that the railroad would rather run off business and eliminate a switch engine anytime possible. It started out with one train per week, usually about 30 cars long. Then developed into two and sometimes three per week. Another facility was opened in California. Both sent trains to the New York facility. The cars moved back mostly empty. Infrequently would there be a loaded car going back. RailEx was planning on adding a facility in the southeast US. UP's mistake was buying RailEx in the first place. They should've just let them be and build up the business. Jeff
Yep Delano, CA was the other facility. Jeff correct me if I'm wrong. I think these blocks from the PNW, and Cali were combined at North Platte.
While some years old. Here's a power point from WATCO on how shortlines can help out moving perishables,
https://www.mwrailshippers.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/07/04-Watco-MARS-Presentation-7.17.18-002.pdf
What I am trying to figure out is how they are (or did) route the shipment. Maine Northern Railway runs south to Millinocket, ME and then has trackage rights over the CM&Q (Canadian Pacific) to Brownville Jct, ME. From there to reach PanAm they have two choices, interchange the shipment to affliate Eastern Maine Rwy. to haul it east to Mattawamkeag, ME and hand it over to PanAm there, though PanAm hasn't sent a train to Mattawamkeag in several years and the track is in wretched shape. Or they can interchange it to CM&Q to move it to Northern Maine Jct, ME where PanAm's track is in better condition.
greyhounds What you say is interesting but it doesn't really jive with all of the facts I have read and observed. I am glad Tiger Cool is purchasing the facility in Wallula but it came a year and half after UP shutdown the business so it is not directly connected. Railex successfully operated the unit train business model for 11 years before UP purchased it so I disagree it was a flawed model. From what I have read UP expanded the business for three years and then suprised a lot of analysts by shutting it down in early 2020 blaming Covid. What changed? Was it really Covid or PSR? As far as traffic congestion, sure the intermodal terminals are clogged up especially in Chicago but that has more to do with breakdowns in the supply chain and a trucker shortage than a lack of capacity on the railroad. Railroads have lost market share in the last 10 years and their overall growth has been very slow or even declining at times especially after the railroads adopted PSR. Annecdotally last year I drove from Washington to Denver and I have never seen so few freight trains plying the railroad over the Blue Mountains and across Wyoming. This same observation was documented in a Trains article in 2019 (if recall the date correctly). There is capacity available but under PSR after laying off rail employees there is certain types of traffic they don't want regardless of available capacity. The facility in Wallua, WA has been sold to Tiger Cool Express. UP hasn’t given up on the business, they’ve just found an entity who knows how to manage it. Tiger Cool is a successful start up formed to move perishables by rail intermodal. They’re building an IM terminal in Wallua but will continue to load reefer cars where that service is appropriate. The UP itself has lost most of its institutional knowledge regarding the movement of perishable products. Thank you, Federal Government. Once such knowledge is lost it takes years and years and years to recover. Tiger Cool has the knowledge. As an example, UP tried to move the produce out of Wallua in unit trains. A really bad concept. The trains ran once, maybe twice, per week to one single terminal in the east. This delayed perishable shipments and drove trucking delivery cost through the roof. It also meant they couldn’t serve major markets such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. But some dork(s) in Omaha wanted unit trains. In short, the UP didn’t know what it was doing. The UP seems to have gotten past its boutique unit train fetish, but they’ve got to regroup on serving this market. They’re doing that. As to “Actively discouraging any non mega shippers", what should they do? They were out of terminal capacity and chassis in places such as Chicago. They have contracts with UPS, FedEx, JB Hunt, Hub Group, etc. They should protect their large, regular customers. You don’t stiff those guys in favor of some shipper who doesn’t use your service unless he can’t get a truck. They allocated scarce capacity to their regular customers. That’s what they needed to do and they did it. I don't see PSR as having anything to do with this.
As far as traffic congestion, sure the intermodal terminals are clogged up especially in Chicago but that has more to do with breakdowns in the supply chain and a trucker shortage than a lack of capacity on the railroad. Railroads have lost market share in the last 10 years and their overall growth has been very slow or even declining at times especially after the railroads adopted PSR. Annecdotally last year I drove from Washington to Denver and I have never seen so few freight trains plying the railroad over the Blue Mountains and across Wyoming. This same observation was documented in a Trains article in 2019 (if recall the date correctly). There is capacity available but under PSR after laying off rail employees there is certain types of traffic they don't want regardless of available capacity.
andrewjonathonI don't see PSR as having anything to do with this.
Insufficient ROI. A hallmark of P$R.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
SD60MAC9500 jeffhergert greyhounds andrewjonathon I wish that was the current thinking but look at the huge facility for transloading fruit/veggies near Pasco that UP closed down in 2020 after only buying it in 2017. It was apparently profitable and they were pretty upbeat about it but after PSR it wasn't profitable enough apparently. What I hear is both BNSF and UP are actively discouraging any non mega shippers from using the railroad. The facility in Wallua, WA has been sold to Tiger Cool Express. UP hasn’t given up on the business, they’ve just found an entity who knows how to manage it. Tiger Cool is a successful start up formed to move perishables by rail intermodal. They’re building an IM terminal in Wallua but will continue to load reefer cars where that service is appropriate. The UP itself has lost most of its institutional knowledge regarding the movement of perishable products. Thank you, Federal Government. Once such knowledge is lost it takes years and years and years to recover. Tiger Cool has the knowledge. As an example, UP tried to move the produce out of Wallua in unit trains. A really bad concept. The trains ran once, maybe twice, per week to one single terminal in the east. This delayed perishable shipments and drove trucking delivery cost through the roof. It also meant they couldn’t serve major markets such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. But some dork(s) in Omaha wanted unit trains. In short, the UP didn’t know what it was doing. The UP seems to have gotten past its boutique unit train fetish, but they’ve got to regroup on serving this market. They’re doing that. As to “Actively discouraging any non mega shippers", what should they do? They were out of terminal capacity and chassis in places such as Chicago. They have contracts with UPS, FedEx, JB Hunt, Hub Group, etc. They should protect their large, regular customers. You don’t stiff those guys in favor of some shipper who doesn’t use your service unless he can’t get a truck. They allocated scarce capacity to their regular customers. That’s what they needed to do and they did it. I don't see PSR as having anything to do with this. The train was ran at the behest of a customer, RailEx. Not a true unit train, it was operated for one customer from their originating facility to their terminal facility. If UP had any say that the move had to be as a unit, it was probably the only way RailEx could get the railroad interested in servicing them. It seems that the railroad would rather run off business and eliminate a switch engine anytime possible. It started out with one train per week, usually about 30 cars long. Then developed into two and sometimes three per week. Another facility was opened in California. Both sent trains to the New York facility. The cars moved back mostly empty. Infrequently would there be a loaded car going back. RailEx was planning on adding a facility in the southeast US. UP's mistake was buying RailEx in the first place. They should've just let them be and build up the business. Jeff Yep Delano, CA was the other facility. Jeff correct me if I'm wrong. I think these blocks from the PNW, and Cali were combined at North Platte.
I believe they usually combined/split them at Green River WY.
Some got to be pretty long. I remember seeing some 9000 ft long. One of which broke into four pieces one day going over the Missouri River bridge at Blair NE.
I can't hold it any more. When I first read the title of this thread, I pictured a bunch of potatoes splattered all over the rails making for very slippery conditions. After all these days that picture still sticks in my mind.
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