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Another item you don't see everyday on the rails.......

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Another item you don't see everyday on the rails.......
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:18 AM

I had no idea they could use these for grading the ROW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5-w63a27VY

 

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Posted by diningcar on Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:22 AM

This is a 'Jordan Spredder' or a takeoff from one. These have been around for 70 years.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:38 AM

CMStPnP
I had no idea they could use these for grading the ROW:

I thought grading the ROW was what they were primarily built for.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:01 AM

Overmod
I thought grading the ROW was what they were primarily built for.

They're good for clearing brush from alongside the ROW, too.  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:57 AM

They are good for lots of things within 25 feet of the track. Roadmaster's friend.

Team them up with a 980/988, a good work train crew and a half dozen airdumps and you can do wonders reshaping shoulders, drainage, cuts and fills (and yards).

One of the better things that ever came out of Michigan.

(Flees the scene as Tree and Carl go looking for rocksClown)

There is a very early 1917-1919 model of CRIP heritage looking for a good home out here. (Jordan Type 2-150, last used on GWR)

Makes a CAT D-9 look like a pup.

Spreader Ditcher (harscorail.com)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, July 25, 2021 12:05 PM

They are also used for snow removal both between and outside of the rails.  They are the first units called to clear snow before it gets too high.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 25, 2021 12:13 PM

mudchicken
(Flees the scene as Tree and Carl go looking for rocks)

Well, there's Carl and I...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, July 25, 2021 12:18 PM

Nikes don't fail me now....

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 25, 2021 3:10 PM

mudchicken

Nikes don't fail me now....

No problem.  I actually took it as a compliment... ;-)

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, July 25, 2021 3:48 PM

I've seen photos of ditching accidents where the operator dug in a little too deep, and instead of deepening the ditch it pushed the track over sideways, resembling a horrible sun kink. 

CN only uses them for plowing snow now.  They are especially useful for clearing slides in the avalanche zones west of Yellowhead Pass and on the former BC Rail line north of Prince George. 

I wish we had more of them, they make plowing yards and clearing drifts much faster and easier. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, July 25, 2021 4:43 PM

The only time I caught a work train with the spreader was when I was doing my brakeman/conductor's field training way back.  I was detailed to follow along on the adjacent roads with the MOW guy's hi-rail truck so they would have transportation if the train tied up at other than the starting point.  I noticed after it had made it's pass a number of track side railroad signs also had been pushed out of the way.

I've caught one as a conductor on a snow widening job.  On the main line, usually there's enough traffic to keep the line clear.  However it builds up along the side, so they call out the spreader to push the snow back.  Making room for new snow.  On double track, you normally only have one wing out, the one on the field side.  There have been cases where by the time they ran the spreader the snow had been packed pretty good.  When the spreader's wing hit the packed snow it derailed the spreader.  Same thing has happened with the CNW's old left handed plow.  (That plow, built from an old Alco is now on the Iowa Northern.)

Jeff 

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:21 PM

The Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern has an ancient edition, with the CN lettering still visible.  

These days it's mostly used as a snow plow, if the regular plow can't deal with the snowfall or they need to push banks back.

Several years ago, MA&N was storing cars north of Carthage.  The brush was so thick that it was lifing cut levers...

So they brought out the Jordan and used it to clear said brush.  It was kind of fascinating to see a 6" or so tree shake, then fall.

It was a busy operation, though.  They'd go a couple of hundred feet, then pause to adjust the blades for culverts and other impediments, then away they'd go until it was time for the next adjustment.

I think CSX still has a Jordan in Watertown, but I haven't seen it lately.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Monday, July 26, 2021 5:55 AM

I had thought those were only for snowplowing. Interesting.

Still in training.


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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, July 26, 2021 10:28 AM

LithO, if you have the Trains archive available to you, I think the article on Jordan Spreaders by Jerry Pinkepank appeared in the late 1960s or early 1970s.  There was very little those machines couldn't do.

Now, as for MC thinking we'd be upset by having such a machine being placed in the same august company as Larry and I, I also took it as a compliment.  However, MC, you forgot about Pat.

Having come out of Michigan three times so far this month, I remain,

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

Lab
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Posted by Lab on Monday, July 26, 2021 2:43 PM

The only time I saw one in operation, the milwaukee was plowing the yard at Houghton, Michigan. They were  clearing 2 tracks to their right as well as the one they were on, pushing 4 feet of snow. The engine pushing was just ideling.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, July 26, 2021 11:54 PM

MOW Critter:  First one of these I saw was about 2007 while going to college at Pitt State ( Pittsbirg,Ks).  KCS RR used it in the area to grade ROW.  Their Jordan Spreaders have dedicated power; painted that orangey color with all the engine glass covered with plating. 

Found a photo of one, on railrpictures.net   apparetly, a well used item ?

Linked @  https://www.railpictures.net/photo/104399/

 

 


 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 9:03 AM

samfp1943
Their Jordan Spreaders have dedicated power; painted that orangey color with all the engine glass covered with plating. 

Interesting that they would dedicate a loco like that.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 9:38 AM

tree68

 

 
samfp1943
Their Jordan Spreaders have dedicated power; painted that orangey color with all the engine glass covered with plating. 

 

Interesting that they would dedicate a loco like that.

That, technically, is no longer a locomotive.  It's just the power source for the spreader, operated by remote control from the cab of the spreader, by a pilot, or--if rules permit--a member of the spreader crew.

 

Carl

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 10:58 AM

CShaveRR
That, technically, is no longer a locomotive.  It's just the power source for the spreader, operated by remote control from the cab of the spreader, by a pilot, or--if rules permit--a member of the spreader crew.

No argument from me on that.  

It does show, though, that they use the Jordan enough to dedicate power to it, as opposed to something they can use elsewhere if the Jordan isn't in use.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 12:14 PM

CShaveRR

LithO, if you have the Trains archive available to you, I think the article on Jordan Spreaders by Jerry Pinkepank appeared in the late 1960s or early 1970s.  There was very little those machines couldn't do.

Now, as for MC thinking we'd be upset by having such a machine being placed in the same august company as Larry and I, I also took it as a compliment.  However, MC, you forgot about Pat.

Having come out of Michigan three times so far this month, I remain,

 

Uh oh - How high on the Richter scale did Pat's eyebrows get?Embarrassed

Get a good operator and a good worktrain crew - you've got a great team that can make the thing dance. Sounds like a few wound up in the hands of Fred Scuttle's relatives which in turn had the neandernoids ("we run trains -  what else is there?") in the operating department put unwarranted restrictions on them. One of the former Belt Railway spreaders out here got the torch because the shortline management was clueless and cheap. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 4:07 PM

tree68
It does show, though, that they use the Jordan enough to dedicate power to it, as opposed to something they can use elsewhere if the Jordan isn't in use.

That's one of the MidSouth's frogeye GP10s (Shreveport being the last place I remember being able to hear the sound of 5 idling 567s consisted together!) and there may be very limited use for such a locomotive in contemporary KCS road service all these years later.  But if it has a cab with glass and controls you'd have to blue-card 4 times a year... and all the cab equipment would need full testing.

KCS was famous for an earlier version: white F units plated off to be run as mandatory B units... 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 5:25 PM

Overmod
That's one of the MidSouth's frogeye GP10s...

Didn't notice the "frog eyes."  I remember seeing them on IGC in the early 1970's.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:30 PM

(I imagine LimitedClear could tell you stories)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 9:47 PM

CShaveRR

 

 
tree68

 

 
samfp1943
Their Jordan Spreaders have dedicated power; painted that orangey color with all the engine glass covered with plating. 

 

Interesting that they would dedicate a loco like that.

 

That, technically, is no longer a locomotive.  It's just the power source for the spreader, operated by remote control from the cab of the spreader, by a pilot, or--if rules permit--a member of the spreader crew.

 

 

I would guess a member of the MOW crew.  UP has done something similar.  They've taken some old SD40-2 engines and rebuilt them to handle certain MOW trains.  These aren't handled by train crews but by MOW people, not locomotive engineers because UP doesn't recognize them as locomotives.  A step up from the Brandt trucks.

A co-worker was able to get inside one and said the cab is not very different than a regular locomotive.  It may look like a duck (an ugly duck) and quack like a duck but it's not a duck. 

Jeff

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 9:59 PM

jeffhergert
 
CShaveRR 
tree68 
samfp1943
Their Jordan Spreaders have dedicated power; painted that orangey color with all the engine glass covered with plating.  

Interesting that they would dedicate a loco like that. 

That, technically, is no longer a locomotive.  It's just the power source for the spreader, operated by remote control from the cab of the spreader, by a pilot, or--if rules permit--a member of the spreader crew. 

I would guess a member of the MOW crew.  UP has done something similar.  They've taken some old SD40-2 engines and rebuilt them to handle certain MOW trains.  These aren't handled by train crews but by MOW people, not locomotive engineers because UP doesn't recognize them as locomotives.  A step up from the Brandt trucks.

A co-worker was able to get inside one and said the cab is not very different than a regular locomotive.  It may look like a duck (an ugly duck) and quack like a duck but it's not a duck. 

Jeff

If the equipment would display markers to define its rear end - by rule it would be considered a train.

A locomotive body coupled (or drawbared) to MofW equipment without displaying markers is a piece of MofW equipment.

Different rules apply to trains and MofW equipment.

 

Derailment of Harsco Rail Grinder with two locomotives as MofW Equipment

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAB0903.pdf

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, July 29, 2021 9:07 AM

BaltACD
If the equipment would display markers to define its rear end - by rule it would be considered a train.

By our rules -  on track equipment is required to display a white light in front and red in the rear when operating at night.  And some more definitions:

Train — An engine or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying a marker.

Engine — A unit propelled by any form of energy, or a combination of such units operated from a single control, used in train or yard service.

On-Track Equipment — Flanged-wheel equipment, other than trains or engines, propelled manually or by other forms of energy, used in the inspection, maintenance, or construction of track, structures, signals and communication equipment.

 

I'm guessing a blue card is what makes the difference between an engine and on-track equipment?  The lines are getting a bit blurry, though. 

   The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 29, 2021 9:30 AM

zugmann
I'm guessing a blue card is what makes the difference between an engine and on-track equipment?

I think there is that for sure, but there is something about the complete plating off of the cab that suggests that 'on-track equipment' might need special construction making it not usable for 'train' or 'yard' work on the general system of transportation -- this might well be a legal department thing in conjunction with government staff.

Bet the MU has been modified well away from AAR function, perhaps along the lines of proportional direct control of the Woodward governor.  What was that story Dave Goding told about the EMD locomotive modified to drive like a mine truck?

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, July 29, 2021 9:48 PM

mudchicken
Uh oh - How high on the Richter scale did Pat's eyebrows get?



She understands...so if you didn't feel the earth tremble you're okay--for now!

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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