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UK plans to decarbonize all transport modes

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UK plans to decarbonize all transport modes
Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 4:42 PM
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 4:57 PM

That's a pretty ambitious plan with a pretty ambitious timeframe. I'm a big fan of airplanes as well as trains. I want to learn more about how those zero emmision airplanes work. Stick out tongue

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 5:59 PM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 6:44 PM

Good luck.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 6:49 PM

charlie hebdo
Electric for short haul,  for now. 

And where is the juice coming from? Solar? In nororiously cloudy UK? Wind? What if it's not a windy day? You can't store electricity in large quantities easily (giant capacitor or battery farms? Enough to run a whole railroad? Pumped storage?) Looks like a big boost for nuclear

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:08 PM

Apparently the plan and technology is just a wish today, and a hope that it will materialize some time in the future.  The top article says: 

“The plan published today is genuinely high ambition – technically and feasibly – for all areas of transport and notes that decarbonisation will rely, in part, on future transport technology, coupled with the necessary behavioral and societal change.

With enough behavioral and societal change, anything is possible.  I have always believed that the Green New Deal will come about ultimately through conservation of energy consumption. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:27 PM

1. Its goals are 9-29 years in future.  Look at the rapid advances the last 10 years. 

2. Electric railroading and trucks are already happening.  American and United Airlines are already ordering short-haul electric VTOL airplanes. 

3. Electric automobiles' market shares are rapidly growing.  Some manufacturers won't be making hydrocarbon-fueled vehicles after 2030 or 2035.

4. Climate change is reality and a crisis that has costs beyond belief if not ameliorated soon. 

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:30 PM

Most of the U.Ks rail system is electric right now. Even a lot of freight trains are electric. 

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Posted by Gramp on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 8:52 PM

Krakatoa anyone?

"Life is what happens to you while you are making other plans".

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 11:22 PM

54light15

Most of the U.Ks rail system is electric right now. Even a lot of freight trains are electric. 

Most of the French trains are also electric, and most of the French electric power comes from nuclear.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, July 15, 2021 1:32 AM

Apparently those who make the rules say burning wood or other biomass is okay because it releases recently captured carbon instead of carbon captured millions of years ago, so it is sustainable and green.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-20/uk-s-move-away-coal-means-they-re-burning-wood-us

If those rule makers would allow removing biomass from national forests to keep them from becoming tinderboxes every year and allow that naturally occurring biomass to be burned to recharge their Teslas, that at least would allow something positive to come from such rulings by providing a sustainable rulemaker-approved source of sustainable green electricity. And if the rule makers would allow the establishment of timber plantations to fuel sustainable green wood-fired electric generating plants, which would create good-paying sustainable green jobs to produce that sustainable green feedstock for sustainable green electricity generation, that might be something positive as part of the solution to replace 289 million US autos and trucks with 289 million electric vehicles, and make 330 million cell phones and tens of millions of Fortnite gaming consoles and Bitcoin-mining computers and such all sustainable green devices.

Maybe those torrified wood-powered steam locomotive blokes at the Coalition For Sustainable Rail are just ahead of their time and should head to the UK to work with the preservationists and new-build steam folks to build sustainable green steam. I would be all in favor of innovative sustainable green wood-fired steam locomotives.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, July 15, 2021 6:18 AM

kgbw49

Apparently those who make the rules say burning wood or other biomass is okay because it releases recently captured carbon instead of carbon captured millions of years ago, so it is sustainable and green.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-20/uk-s-move-away-coal-means-they-re-burning-wood-us

If those rule makers would allow removing biomass from national forests to keep them from becoming tinderboxes every year and allow that naturally occurring biomass to be burned to recharge their Teslas, that at least would allow something positive to come from such rulings by providing a sustainable rulemaker-approved source of sustainable green electricity. And if the rule makers would allow the establishment of timber plantations to fuel sustainable green wood-fired electric generating plants, which would create good-paying sustainable green jobs to produce that sustainable green feedstock for sustainable green electricity generation, that might be something positive as part of the solution to replace 289 million US autos and trucks with 289 million electric vehicles, and make 330 million cell phones and tens of millions of Fortnite gaming consoles and Bitcoin-mining computers and such all sustainable green devices.

Maybe those torrified wood-powered steam locomotive blokes at the Coalition For Sustainable Rail are just ahead of their time and should head to the UK to work with the preservationists and new-build steam folks to build sustainable green steam. I would be all in favor of innovative sustainable green wood-fired steam locomotives.

 

The Brits, especially Yorkshireman, do a lot of weird things.  Few folks concerned with climate warming think using wood or ethanol are answers. 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, July 15, 2021 6:50 AM

kgbw49
If those rule makers would allow removing biomass from national forests...

After the "microburst" (derecho) that struck northern New York in 1995, there was substantial blowdown in the Adirondacks.  The Adirondacks have been declared "forever wild," so those trees lay there to this day, rotting.

The lumber industry begged for access to the fallen timber, but to no avail.

The conversion of a local cogen from coal/coke to biomass resulted in an increase in the price of firewood since suppliers could make more shredding trees for the power plant than cutting and splitting wood for those burning wood at home.

While the wood suppliers were supposedly shredding offcut (branches, etc), it was said that whole trees were being processed as well.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, July 15, 2021 11:41 AM

BEAUSABRE
Wind? What if it's not a windy day?

That isn't much of a concern for the UK.  They have semi-unique geography that gives them enormous access to coastal winds, large shallow waters, and mountain ridgelines oriented to engage prevailing winds.  

The *average* windspeed for a North Sea coastal location at wind turbine height is 41 mph.  You only need to reach about 7 mph for a turbine to spin up.  If 41 is your average speed, you're very very very rarely dropping under 7.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 15, 2021 1:37 PM

In Coastal area, Tides can be harnessed to generate power as the flow in and out.

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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, July 15, 2021 2:58 PM

54light15

Most of the U.Ks rail system is electric right now. Even a lot of freight trains are electric. 

Some of Great Britain is electrified, and a small number of freight trains use electric locomotives. In Britain there are four large railfreight operators, and a few small operators. Two of the large operators have been importing EMD Class 66 locomotives from the European mainland to help meet their needs. Since the retirement of the Class 86 electric locomotive fleet, about three dozen Class 90 electric locomotives, plus a small handful of Class 92 electric locomotives and Class 88 electro-diesels haul freight. Compare this to over 450 diesel locomotives in daily mainline service, mainly EMD Class 66 locomotives. A big problem is that electrified trackage either doesn't go where the freight needs to go, it needs to pass through the London commuter zone, or you have a problem with either an unelectrified "Last Mile or Several Mile" problem. An additional problem for Britain is that there are limited routes with the clearance for single-stacked containers and most of these have intensive passenger services.  

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