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UP bridge is seriously damaged by a major forest fire

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UP bridge is seriously damaged by a major forest fire
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 2:43 PM

UP tall tresel bridge suffers extensive bridge damage.  Wonder how much testing of other bridge members will be required ?

ad46f9ea-225e-4e75-a09d-8bd9c1f8cc4d-jpeg.23284 (777×600) (amtraktrains.com)

Lava Fire photos: see the desolation left behind (mtshastanews.com)

UP service interruptions

UP: All Customer News

 Lava Fire - Bing News

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Posted by rrnut282 on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 3:42 PM

Gee, 

Can the railroad sue the US Forest Svc?  Mischief  It seems to work in the other direction.  

blue streak 1

UP tall tresel bridge suffers extensive bridge damage.  Wonder how much testing of other bridge members will be required ?

ad46f9ea-225e-4e75-a09d-8bd9c1f8cc4d-jpeg.23284 (777×600) (amtraktrains.com)

Lava Fire photos: see the desolation left behind (mtshastanews.com)

UP service interruptions

UP: All Customer News

 Lava Fire - Bing News

 

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:05 PM

rrnut282
Can the railroad sue the US Forest Svc?

Apparently lightning-caused, so no.  

See the 'Starlight bus bridge' thread in the Passenger forum for more on this.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:45 PM

Is the bridge basically a timber trestle?  From the pictures it certainly doesn't have a ballast deck.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 5:29 PM

BaltACD

Is the bridge basically a timber trestle?  From the pictures it certainly doesn't have a ballast deck.

 

HAD a ballast deck; the curbs burned away the curbs and the floor, the fouled ballast, dirt and cinder fines helped snuff out the fire.

A pair of bridge gangs and pile drivers just got new marching orders for the year. Lotsa fun rounding up new piling for the bents on that rascal. PSR will take a back seat on this one for a while.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 5:38 PM

Overmod
 
rrnut282
Can the railroad sue the US Forest Svc? 

Apparently lightning-caused, so no.  

 

You can't fool Ma Nature, but can you sue her?Huh?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by tdmidget on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 5:53 PM

It's steel structure, no pile driver needed.

 

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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, July 1, 2021 8:27 AM

Major fire in British Columbia affecting the CN side of the paired track along the Frazier River. It is reported that the bridge across the river has a lumber car on it with the load on fire. The westbound Canadian is being held at Kamloops. Reportedly the town of Lytton is being burned to the ground.

 

Lytton Fire Video 1

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Posted by rrnut282 on Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:11 AM

Overmod, mudchicken,

Did anyone witness said lightning or are they just assuming?  Afterall, no one actually saw hot cinders fall from the D&S locomotive to start a fire and that didn't stop the Fire Svc. from suing.    What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander, right? Bang Head

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by cx500 on Thursday, July 1, 2021 5:30 PM

It is actually the Fraser River, not Frazier.  It is named after Simon Fraser, an early explorer who was the first to reach the Pacific coast using the river.  The difficulties and dangers he faced meant few followed! 

Both CN and CP (and the town) are on the south side of the River in that area so probably both railway lines are affected.  And since it is the directional running zone, both railways will have to cope with any damage.  The CNR has two major bridges.  On the east side of town CN crosses the Thompson River, and to the west crosses the Fraser River to hop back to the north side.  Lytton is where the two rivers join.  It remains to be seen whether the bridge ties caught fire on either bridge.

John

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 1, 2021 6:00 PM

Lytton is gone.  Nothing left but street signs and chimneys.  

CN 355 (Prince George to Vancouver manifest) had a loaded lumber car on fire.  It caused damage to the bridge deck at Martinson, near Boston Bar.  It is not clear yet if the two are related to each other, and it is possible that sparks from the Lytton fire landed on the lumber car and set it ablaze.

Local politicians have been quick to blame the railway, but the cause is still officially under investigation.  

CN has two major bridges right at Lytton, across both the Fraser and Thompson rivers.  The creosoted timber deck has been destroyed on at least one of them.  The CP line also runs right through Lytton, and traffic on both railways is at a standstill.

This area is part of the directional running zone where the railways share track, westbounds normally run on CN and eastbounds on CP.  Many sidings have been removed and none are long, so even if one line were to reopen only a fraction of the traffic could be run, with big delays.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:15 PM

rrnut282

Overmod, mudchicken,

Did anyone witness said lightning or are they just assuming?  Afterall, no one actually saw hot cinders fall from the D&S locomotive to start a fire and that didn't stop the Fire Svc. from suing.    What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander, right? Bang Head

 

Brake shoe sparks have started wildfires.  Diesel exhaust sparks have started wildfires.  If USFS says lightning, why are you pushing it?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 10:43 PM

There were storms through the area at the time. The fire started well away from the Natron Cutoff, so not likely railroad related. In fact, they thought they had the fire under control then the wind shifted.

 

unrelated to railroading, but the pictures of the fire burning up the side of Shasta are fascinating. 

 

 

Fire is currently at 72% contained which is good. I was honestly worried it would blow up and put Weed and Mt. Shasta City at risk (and CORP for that matter.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, July 7, 2021 10:45 PM

There's a second fire further northeast along 97 as well. Smaller and also 70%+ contained.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Friday, July 9, 2021 11:34 PM
And Now the Beckworth Complex fire burning north of the pass. Curbnetly burning east and I think I heard it crossed 395, but it is literally right at the pass where the former WP main is. If UP gets cut off here they will be seriously capacity constrained. And frankly keddie is too close if it gets out of hand. We would for sure see detours up the Siskyous if that happens. BNSF would be cut off too.
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:52 PM

The statement by UP of September to restore service brings up some thoughts.

1.  Did the fire damage some of the tressel's concrete pilings ?  If so will UP replace same ?  ON The present bridge  SP may have used concrete of that era that may be replaced by 2021 concrete ?

2.  Will any of the present steel be used.  If so is there enough non destructive testing available to certify same ?

3.  Where will UP get the replacement steel that will meet specs ?  Deliveries  might be tight ?/

4.  How much work by engineering department needed.?  did it have to pull out old blueprints or  microfitch ?  Will UP digitize those plans and update them where necessary ?

5.  What was the cooper rating of the present bridge and will UP increase that rating ?  On that thought was 4014 allowed over the destroyed bridge and be allowed on the new bridge?

6.  What if any federal inspections of design and construction be needed for restoring service ?

7.  Track damage was also cited.  Does that include signal bungalows and can UP steal same from other locations under construction ?  A lot of the inards are site spefic.  

8.  What about the satelite services ?  Any destroyed and can the carrier supply new units?

9.  How about load testing ?  I could see an unmaned DPU unit pulling a string of old heavy locos across the bridge as a test .  That at various speeds up to 1-1/2 - 2 times  max authorized speed,  Needed instruments will be placed on new bridge.

Corections additions needed and expected.  Will edit this post when same acquired.

Wonder if UP will have drone pictures / videos of the work from start to finish,?

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Posted by tdmidget on Monday, July 12, 2021 7:13 AM

Streak, I see you have your hopes up but the bridge itself is not damaged. The fire didn't even burn the ties completely, only the ends. Look at the first pic in your second link. There is no steel or concrete work evident. No testing. LOOK at the picture. The fire didn't even burn the needles on the trees. At that point just a grass/brush fire. Very little of that structure got too hot to touch.

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Monday, July 12, 2021 11:07 AM

If you're talking about Dry Canyon Viaduct, UP has already removed one or more spans from the top of the bridge, with at least one more visibly warped span near the middle waiting for removal. Portions of the support towers were also damaged and will need to be replaced. Perhaps not visible in the photos you've seen, but the terrain beneath the bridge and south of the bridge has been scorched, leaving dozens (if not hundreds) of trees that may eventually be candidates for selective logging. Which could prove helpful in restoring some of the viewpoints that used to provide good photographic angles of the bridge.

Recent statement from UP:

https://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/generalannouncements/CN2021-44.html

 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, July 15, 2021 2:34 AM
I suppose I should start a new thread, but the dixie fire flared up in the feather River canyon. Close enough to paradise that it's making major headlines. It's burning in the canyon UP is using it's water train in CO junction with cal fire helicopters to keep it at bay.
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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, July 17, 2021 9:09 PM

UP's detour route thru Salt Lake is also out of commission now with flooding washout in southern Utah:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/flooding-shuts-down-union-pacific-line-in-utah/

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 18, 2021 2:19 AM

MidlandMike

UP's detour route thru Salt Lake is also out of commission now with flooding washout in southern Utah:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/flooding-shuts-down-union-pacific-line-in-utah/

So with the LAX <> Salt Lake out of service traffic will have to go LAX to Sacremento to Salt Lake to Portland then on.  UP may have to use some trains on the coast route.  CREWS are going to be a problem.  Call back furloughs on operating routes and transfer any laid offs that are qualified onto working routes.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 18, 2021 5:21 PM
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Posted by ADRIAN BALLAM on Monday, July 19, 2021 12:17 AM

The torrential rain is Utah would sure be needed in Northern California, Oregon, and BC, and Saskatchewan right now.

That being said, since UP's Los Angeles-Salt Lake City route is now out of a commision, does that mean some trains, such as the M-NPWC and its counterpart would use the Golden State Route and the Sunset Route to get to Los Angeles?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 4:27 PM
The moved the Fire car fleet to the Feather river which the fire is now on both sides of the Canyon. Not clear to me if UP is shut down, but they are running the fire train up and down the canyon. Thankfully Beckwourth stayed to the north. So I'm not even sure UP or BNSF can get to Oregon right now. AND, the fire up in Oregon is east of the Inside gateway, but still nearby. So the only current routes out of the state for UP are Sunset and Donner and I suppose going over CORP.
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Posted by Fred M Cain on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 7:20 AM

Where was this exactly?  Was it on the Cascade/Klamath Falls line or the Siskiyou Line.  Looking at the inciweb map it appears to have been just north of Weed on the Klamath Falls line but I can't be sure.

However, if that was the case, was anything detoured over the Siskiyou Line?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 12:05 PM
Correct, it's north of weed on the Natron Cutoff. AKA to K-Falls.
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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 2:11 PM

Fred, go here:

https://goo.gl/maps/yNezoDqwPjWn1Pny7

If your browser accepts the link properly, it will take you directly to a close-up view of Dry Canyon Bridge. Then zoom your view outward to see where it is in relation to everything else.

 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Monday, August 2, 2021 8:32 PM
Apparently they just reopened the bridge a month earlier than scheduled. I just saw my first train coming down the valley sub. UP had sceduled 2 trains to go up CORP. They got delayed, because the Wye at weed was damaged due to fire staging activities that were happening there. NAtron was open and so they just started using the regular route. Presumably Coast Starlight has resumed or will soon.
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Posted by Fred M Cain on Thursday, August 5, 2021 9:36 AM

YoHo1975
Apparently they just reopened the bridge a month earlier than scheduled. I just saw my first train coming down the valley sub. UP had sceduled 2 trains to go up CORP. They got delayed, because the Wye at weed was damaged due to fire staging activities that were happening there. NAtron was open and so they just started using the regular route. Presumably Coast Starlight has resumed or will soon.
 

 
Hmmmn.  Not sure about this.  I just saw an online accuweather news item that stated that the bridge will not reopen until Sept. 1st.  Was that article just plain wrong or is there another damaged bridge?
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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, August 5, 2021 1:09 PM

It is out of date, trains are moving. That September 1st date was from Weeks ago.

 

https://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/generalannouncements/CN2021-49.html

https://krcrtv.com/news/local/fire-damaged-dry-canyon-bridge-reopens-after-the-lava-fire

Looks like feather river reopened as well despite the fact that the Dixie fire is still destroying forest and towns north of there. Suspect inside gateway may still be closed.

Which is all good given the Risk to Donner from the River fire.

Looks like 

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