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Around the horn

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  • Member since
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Around the horn
Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, May 21, 2021 4:05 PM

     A random little calculation that make me go hmmm. We have a carload of lumber coming that just passed east through Fargo, N.D. Via I-29, it's 252 highway miles from there to our lumber yard. The train car, however will travel about 820 miles by rail before it gets here. In the process, it goes ND> MN>SD>MN>IA>MN>SD.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, May 21, 2021 4:57 PM

I had a car of lumber going to the Sioux Falls area in my eastbound train.  I thought it might be going to Murphy's yard but it wasn't.  I don't know where it originated, somewhere west/north of North Platte.  It was on a train bound for Chicago.  The routing was to Chicago to be interchanged to BNSF for final delivery in South Dakota.

There is an interchange with BNSF at Council Bluffs.  There is a manifest that runs from NP to CB.  Why the routing requiring an extra 1000 miles? 

Jeff  

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, May 21, 2021 5:57 PM

jeffhergert
I had a car of lumber going to the Sioux Falls area in my eastbound train.  I thought it might be going to Murphy's yard but it wasn't.  I don't know where it originated, somewhere west/north of North Platte.  It was on a train bound for Chicago.  The routing was to Chicago to be interchanged to BNSF for final delivery in South Dakota.

There is an interchange with BNSF at Council Bluffs.  There is a manifest that runs from NP to CB.  Why the routing requiring an extra 1000 miles? 

Jeff  

The carriers have worked out 'preferred interchange locations' that supposedly minimize internal handling for the carriers participating in the various agreements.

I can't speak for any other carriers, however, on CSX while I was working it was common to move cars hundreds of miles in the wrong geographical direction so as to minimize switching on the entirety of the routing from origin to destination or off line interchange point.  Without detailed data, I am not so sure I agree with that Operating Plan.  Sending cars 178 miles West from Baltimore to Cumberland so they can be switched to go from Cumberland to Richmond, to me seems the inefficient way to move the car(s) the 158 miles from Baltimore to Richmond.  But I only ran the Plan, not making the Plan.

I don't know if PSR has changed this plan since it eliminated Cumberland as a hump yard.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, May 21, 2021 10:53 PM

CSX picks up from MA&N at Utica, NY westbound only.  Thus a car headed east will go west at least to Syracuse (Dewitt), and possibly to Buffalo before going east.

Likewise, CSX only drops cars at Utica eastbound.  So a car coming from the east has to go at least to Syracuse before it can come back east and be dropped.

Syracuse and Utica are only 50 miles apart.  Who knows what actual routing is actually used... (Rhetorical question)

LarryWhistling
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Posted by greyhounds on Friday, May 21, 2021 11:19 PM

Murphy Siding
A random little calculation that make me go hmmm. We have a carload of lumber coming that just passed east through Fargo, N.D. Via I-29, it's 252 highway miles from there to our lumber yard. The train car, however will travel about 820 miles by rail before it gets here. In the process, it goes ND> MN>SD>MN>IA>MN>SD.

You've hit on the Achilles Heel of railroading.  That's the need to aggregate units of sale (carload/container/trailer) into units of production, a trainload.

They can't ad hoc every sale (carload/container/trailer) so they have an operating plan that facilitates the needed aggregation into production lots (a trainload.)

They're following the best plan they can devise to move your freight given their need for aggregation.

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by PNWRMNM on Saturday, May 22, 2021 8:44 AM
What is the interchange point?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, May 22, 2021 10:08 AM

The whole thing sounds like a variation on something out of "The Octopus" by Frank Norris.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 22, 2021 10:41 AM

PNWRMNM
What is the interchange point?
 

our car of lumber came from Washington. I think the whole trip was on BNSF.

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Posted by JPS1 on Saturday, May 22, 2021 10:59 AM

tree68

CSX picks up from MA&N at Utica, NY westbound only.  Thus a car headed east will go west at least to Syracuse (Dewitt), and possibly to Buffalo before going east.

Likewise, CSX only drops cars at Utica eastbound.  So a car coming from the east has to go at least to Syracuse before it can come back east and be dropped.

Syracuse and Utica are only 50 miles apart.  Who knows what actual routing is actually used... (Rhetorical question) 

If I get my stuff when it was promised, why would I care how the railroad routes the car or the container?

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, May 22, 2021 1:55 PM

JPS1
If I get my stuff when it was promised, why would I care how the railroad routes the car or the container?

A perfectly valid point made many times here on the forum.  I was merely illustrating such a routing on a smaller scale.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, May 22, 2021 4:23 PM

JPS1
 
tree68

CSX picks up from MA&N at Utica, NY westbound only.  Thus a car headed east will go west at least to Syracuse (Dewitt), and possibly to Buffalo before going east.

Likewise, CSX only drops cars at Utica eastbound.  So a car coming from the east has to go at least to Syracuse before it can come back east and be dropped.

Syracuse and Utica are only 50 miles apart.  Who knows what actual routing is actually used... (Rhetorical question) 

If I get my stuff when it was promised, why would I care how the railroad routes the car or the container?

However, if PSR changes your scheduled transit time from 8 to 9 days that affects the number of cars that you need to transport the same amount of product over time, even if the carrier upholds the 9 day schedule without fail.

Customers are routinely provided service within a scheduled window on a periodic basis - be that daily, three times a week, two times a week or weekly.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, May 22, 2021 6:02 PM

You preaching to the choir here Balt on the PSR issues.  We are screaming right now as UP decided that Kansas City was the wrong place to interchange the plastic resin cars over the BNSF for delivery to us.  Now they are wanting to take it to Chicago or St Louis then hand it over.  Our sales rep at the BNSF is saying if UP does this to us it will add over a week almost 2 weeks to our delivery timelines on our resins MINIMUM.  To the point where my boss might just say screw it and be forced to complain to the STB over this crap on how UP is refusing to allow as we have found out thru our research to the PTRA I think that is the railroad in the Port of Houston to service the plant they have access to it and then interchange the cars to the BNSF directly.  It is the UP doing this to us.

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Saturday, May 22, 2021 8:15 PM

Murphy,

From Fargo should go Breckenridge to Willmar and then south to you.

Mac

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