Trains.com

Question about photo in January Trains

2866 views
27 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 2,671 posts
Question about photo in January Trains
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Sunday, December 27, 2020 10:33 PM

There is a terrific photo on pages 56 and 57. It's quite dramatic, one of the best shots I've seen in the mag in a long time.

But there are a couple of things I don't get. The caption says the engine is sandwiched between two "double-track plows."  Now, I had never heard of a double-track plow, but I can imagine a plow with regular blades in the front and some type of outrigger blade that would reach a second track.

But that's not what it seems we're seeing. I can see in the foreground that a train has previously been by on the track the first plow and engine are on. There is no second track visible in the foreground, but maybe it's totally covered with snow.

I wish the editors had not chosen to drop another pic on top of that one (a pet peeve, btw), because I think that otherwise we might be able to see if two tracks are plowed behind the train. (You can barely make out that the track curves out from in the woods. Quite a long lens was used, really compressing the perspective.)

Based on plants I see poking out of the snow, I think there's no room at this location for two tracks. ??

So, are the just mentioning it's that sort of plow, but really only one track is being plowed?

And why have the second plow? I can't tell for sure, but the 2nd plow seems to be facing forward also. Now, I could see where a 2nd plow facing aft would be useful if the plow train needed to back into a siding and clear it. But I'm not sure I get the purpose of a second forward-facing plow behind the engine.

Can anyone explain to me what's going on?

In any event, it's a kick-a$$ shot!

Still in training.


  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 27, 2020 10:53 PM

I think a double-track plow is one that is angled to throw all the snow off to one side, rather than to 'both' -- this being like a typical power angle plow except fixed to the 'off side' of directional running.  For right-hand running this would angle to the right, for left-hand running to the left, and the same would be true of a rotary's throw.

If you were the 'first' plowing in deep snow, a certain amount of snow might tumble over from the unplowed track 'cover', and it might be helpful to have a second plow catch and move this.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 28, 2020 7:41 AM

Railroad plows frequently have wings, too...  They may not clean down to track level, but they can push back the snow just plowed a little further.

Now I've got to find my January issue...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • 2,366 posts
Posted by timz on Monday, December 28, 2020 10:24 AM

I don't have the pic -- does it show spreaders?

Doubt any RR has ever had actual double-track plows.

On Donner Pass, SP might sandwich an engine between eastward-facing and westward-facing plows or spreaders, or it might send a single spreader west on the eastward track followed by another spreader west on the westward track, plowing snow that had been shoved aside by the first spreader.

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, December 28, 2020 1:27 PM

tree68
Now I've got to find my January issue...

 
It's the current issue. At least the latest I've received.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 28, 2020 1:35 PM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
tree68
Now I've got to find my January issue...
 

 

 
It's the current issue. At least the latest I've received.
 

Yep - It's here somewhere....

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, December 28, 2020 1:57 PM

Deleted, duplicate post.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, December 28, 2020 2:20 PM

CN double track plow photo partway down this page:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_rolling/one.htm

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 28, 2020 3:26 PM

timz

I don't have the pic -- does it show spreaders?

Doubt any RR has ever had actual double-track plows.

On Donner Pass, SP might sandwich an engine between eastward-facing and westward-facing plows or spreaders, or it might send a single spreader west on the eastward track followed by another spreader west on the westward track, plowing snow that had been shoved aside by the first spreader.

 

The CNW had a left hand plow made out of an old Alco road switcher.  It was at the Boone & Scenic Valley, but they traded/sold it to the Iowa Northern a year or two back.

Those double track plows can be dangerous.  Since the snow is pushed off to one side, sometimes hitting a large drift the force of the snow building up can shove the plow off the track.  Of course, there are videos of regular plows hitting drifts and being derailed, too.

Jeff

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, December 28, 2020 3:40 PM

Dude, I see a double-ended plow, but not one that's obviously a double-track plow. Can you reference it with a car number?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 28, 2020 3:44 PM

It's right above the double ended plow, and right below the two standard plows.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, December 28, 2020 3:45 PM

Lithonia Operator

Dude, I see a double-ended plow, but not one that's obviously a double-track plow. Can you reference it with a car number?

CN 55501.

A sister (CN 55500) is preserved at a museum in Wainwright, Alberta.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 28, 2020 3:59 PM

Double Track Plow

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, December 28, 2020 4:26 PM

That doesn't plow two tracks at once, it has a baffle on the left of the plow that discourages snow from falling to the left, and posssibly covering track on that side that might have already been plowed.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 28, 2020 6:02 PM

Semper Vaporo
That doesn't plow two tracks at once, it has a baffle on the left of the plow that discourages snow from falling to the left, and posssibly covering track on that side that might have already been plowed.

Correct - it plows one track in double track territory - another plow of the same construction operating on the other track in the opposite direction will clear it.

If 'center' plows were used, each time they would be putting about half their 'spoil' onto the other track - creating more work when going in the opposite direction.

Remember, when these 'double track' plows were created - most double track installations had current of traffic signalling in one direction only.  On the B&O West on #1 and East on #2.  Anything authorized to operate against the current of traffic was running on specific train order authorization.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Monday, December 28, 2020 10:39 PM

It seems we may have a difference of opinion on what "double track plow" means.

If it means not that it plows two tracks, but rather that it just doesn't compound the problem on a second track, then I think the photo in question shows one. It's a little hard to tell for sure, since the angle is dead straight on.

But at least one of the plows also has side blades on both sides, and the plow extra is launching snow in both directions.

A really nice element in the photo is that the crewman is leaning outside the window of the cupola, looking straight ahead. Great photo.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 7:00 AM

Lithonia Operator

It seems we may have a difference of opinion on what "double track plow" means.

If it means not that it plows two tracks, but rather that it just doesn't compound the problem on a second track, then I think the photo in question shows one. It's a little hard to tell for sure, since the angle is dead straight on.

But at least one of the plows also has side blades on both sides, and the plow extra is launching snow in both directions.

A really nice element in the photo is that the crewman is leaning outside the window of the cupola, looking straight ahead. Great photo.

That sums it up pretty well.

A single track line would use a "push it both ways" version - by far the most predominant  version.  Here's another view of a double track plow: Double Track Plow

A double track line plow would throw the snow off to one side only.

Those who live in snow country see this every day - most highway plows throw the snow off in one direction only.  The vintage "vee" plows are more often seen as signs out in front of the highway garage.

Our DOT plows that handle the Interstates have a plow that will throw either way, so they can plow either lane.

As for the wings, those serve to help get the snow further off the track, not to clear adjacent tracks.  They are more or less analogous to the wing plows on a highway snowplow - although those are actually capable of clearing the road surface.

 

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 11:37 AM

The Illinois Tollway Commission has wing plows in their fleet, they look like Jordan spreaders when the wings are extended.  The wings seem to be used primarily for clearing the shoulder from the adjacent lane.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 12:25 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The Illinois Tollway Commission has wing plows in their fleet, they look like Jordan spreaders when the wings are extended.  The wings seem to be used primarily for clearing the shoulder from the adjacent lane.

Many of the Interstate plows have wings on both sides - and if traffic allows they may well have both of them out.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:21 PM

tree68
 
CSSHEGEWISCH

The Illinois Tollway Commission has wing plows in their fleet, they look like Jordan spreaders when the wings are extended.  The wings seem to be used primarily for clearing the shoulder from the adjacent lane. 

Many of the Interstate plows have wings on both sides - and if traffic allows they may well have both of them out.

One of the joys if retirement - not having to frequent the Interstates when the white stuff is falling.

Locally the public works people have been pre-treating the highways a day or so ahead of prediced snow events by spraying a brine solution on the highways.  They have been doing that for the last 5 or so years.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

Lab
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 65 posts
Posted by Lab on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 6:00 PM

Back about 1960 I remember being impressed watching the yard being cleared in Houghton Michigan using a V with a wing on each side.   One wing was extended as they cleared 3 tracks. The engine pushing the plow sounded as if it were idling as they pushed  4 feet of snow.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 7:24 PM

Just re-looked at the photo published in TRAINS....My firest look seemed to be a pair of snow plows that were sandwiched front and rear; with the power in the middle(?) 

My frirst thought, was that it was an arrangement to plow a branch line; to clear it, the plows entered into the line, plowed to one end then reversed, and plowed to the other end; after which it was able to exit the plowed line(?) Whistling

 

 


 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 7:57 PM

SD70Dude

CN double track plow photo partway down this page:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_rolling/one.htm

 

 

That was a fun excursion.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:47 PM

A couple of years ago I was driving on I-88 in New York between Binghamton and Oneonta, coming up behind a highway plow truck towing a trailer.  Suddenly its lights started to flashing and a sign indicated to stay back/do not pass.  Then the trailer, attached to the truck with a long arm, started to vier into the adjacent lane, and stayed in that lane for several miles.  Eventually it viered back into the lane behing the truck, and let quite a few cars pass.  I figured they were testing some new double lane capable plow system.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • 299 posts
Posted by adkrr64 on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 5:13 AM

MidlandMike
A couple of years ago I was driving on I-88 in New York between Binghamton and Oneonta, coming up behind a highway plow truck towing a trailer.  Suddenly its lights started to flashing and a sign indicated to stay back/do not pass.  Then the trailer, attached to the truck with a long arm, started to vier into the adjacent lane, and stayed in that lane for several miles.  Eventually it viered back into the lane behing the truck, and let quite a few cars pass.  I figured they were testing some new double lane capable plow system

That would be a tow plow: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UljZPp0hZsY

They make superb rolling road blocks.

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:02 AM

adkrr64

That's delightful -- perfectly logical 'adaptive reuse' of the steering used on long or heavy specialty trailers... and it looks as if the company that makes them has set up to spread anti-icing material from the trailer to go along with 'salt spreading' from the towing vehicle.

Wouldn't this be a perfect application to refine autonomous-guidance algorithms for unusual or emergency climatic conditions? Geeked

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 5:31 PM

Finally found my January issue...

Looks like everything that's been said about double track plows applies in that image, even if they are plowing a single track line.

It appears the firemen's side wing plow is out as well.

I'd opine that they need to run a flanger through there, too.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, February 20, 2021 12:37 PM

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy