I follow the BNSF and have noticed that a lot of their trains arrive at their destinations early. How does the yard master know that a train is running early? For exmple a ZWSPSDD, Willow Springs Illanois to Sand Bernadino, California train ran two hours early.
caldreamerI follow the BNSF and have noticed that a lot of their trains arrive at their destinations early. How does the yard master know that a train is running early? For exmple a ZWSPSDD, Willow Springs Illanois to Sand Bernadino, California train ran two hours early.
Communication.
The operating side of the railroad is all about communication - Train Crews - Train Dispatchers - Yardmasters - MofW Personnel - Signal Personnel - Everyone communicates.
Communication includes passing necessary data among all parties concerned.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The nature of the schedule is an unknown here. Does the BNSF train have times published, either in the timetable or otherwise? Or is it just getting to Willow Springs ahead of the time required to have its boxed landed and ready for pickup?On the CNW, when the Falcon (AKA the Chicken Train or The Bird) was instituted, its train (#245) had its schedule in the employee timetables as a first-class train. What they'd do, then, was annul the train and run an Advance 245 as an extra. It probably was much closer to 245's schedule by the time it negotiated the main line to Fremont.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
caldreamer, how do you know this train was early? How do know its schedule?
I didn't think most freights ran on schedules. Maybe they pad the schedule, so the sales force can say, "Our trains not only run in time, they are usually early."
Carl:
The BNSF schedule for intermodal trains shows the day and time the train is available for loading. The cutoff time, expected time in hours and days from origination point to destination point. If a train can change crews and refuel quickly with little or no delay the train can be early. Likewise i have records of trains running 30 minutes to 12 hours late. .
Lithonia Operator:
I have my sources that provide information.
CShaveRRThe nature of the schedule is an unknown here. Does the BNSF train have times published, either in the timetable or otherwise? Or is it just getting to Willow Springs ahead of the time required to have its boxed landed and ready for pickup? On the CNW, when the Falcon (AKA the Chicken Train or The Bird) was instituted, its train (#245) had its schedule in the employee timetables as a first-class train. What they'd do, then, was annul the train and run an Advance 245 as an extra. It probably was much closer to 245's schedule by the time it negotiated the main line to Fremont.
On the CNW, when the Falcon (AKA the Chicken Train or The Bird) was instituted, its train (#245) had its schedule in the employee timetables as a first-class train. What they'd do, then, was annul the train and run an Advance 245 as an extra. It probably was much closer to 245's schedule by the time it negotiated the main line to Fremont.
Can't speak to BNSF, I can only speak to CSX and its predecessors - Manifest, Intermodal and Automotive trains all operate on schedules - how well those schedules are kept can be open to question. The schedule are contained within the company's Operating Plan; the Operating Plan would be updated on a weekly basis dependent on traffic volume as well as specific operating conditions such as MofW work taking place on various subdivisions across the property.
Within CSX there was, when I was working, a metric called 'Right Car, Right Train'. Each car from and to a customer is scheduled - the switch times at origin are scheduled, putting that car into the forwarding train is scheduled - with blocking and intermediate connections - upon arrival at THAT train's destination the connections to other trains or switching to destination customers is scheduled. Local supervision is (or was) held accountable for how good or bad the metric was. Local supervision was also held accountable for On Time opeation of the scheduled trains on their territory.
When you start getting into bulk commodities, coal, grain, phosphate, iron ore, coke and everything else that gets handled in unit train quantities - those moves are 'relatively' unscheduled - they don't have specifically scheduled origin or destination times - however the equipment in these moves does get measured in equipment turnaround times. Local managment endeavors to operate these trains in the 'windows' that are created by Amtrak, Commuters and all the scheduled freight trains that are operated.
It's not unusual for CSX's NorthWest Ohio (North Baltimore) facility to have "no room at the inn." Trains will be will be stacked up all over the place, waiting for space.
Since I don't track CSX trains as to their on-time performance, I don't know if it's because someone is early. or if NWO is just full.
NWO is now a crew change point, so the arrival of an irregular train (bulk trains that Balt mentioned) could throw things off as well, especially if crews are scarce for some reason.
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tree68It's not unusual for CSX's NorthWest Ohio (North Baltimore) facility to have "no room at the inn." Trains will be will be stacked up all over the place, waiting for space. Since I don't track CSX trains as to their on-time performance, I don't know if it's because someone is early. or if NWO is just full. NWO is now a crew change point, so the arrival of an irregular train (bulk trains that Balt mentioned) could throw things off as well, especially if crews are scarce for some reason.
I suspect NWO is only a crew change location for Intermodal trains that normally work at NWO. I suspect Garrett and Willard are the crew change locations for non-intermodal that are operating on the line.
caldreamer I follow the BNSF and have noticed that a lot of their trains arrive at their destinations early. How does the yard master know that a train is running early? For exmple a ZWSPSDD, Willow Springs Illanois to Sand Bernadino, California train ran two hours early.
By the way, San Bernardino is SBD (not SDD). All BNSF trains have a schedule, and terminals have computers to monitor a train's progress. As the train is delayed or time is made up en route, the ETA at subsequent stations is adjusted automatically by the computer using schedule information. If trains are known to be delayed (such has held for MOW or a service interruption), yardmasters, trainmasters, and dispatchers can lock in a time at a station, and this will also cause times at downline stations to change accordingly. There is the chance that a train operating early might not have a track to enter a yard or facility, but for the most part, operating people at the destination are more interested in when the train is coming, not whether it's early or late, and the computer tells them that, though it must be monitored for changes. Many locations also have access to viewing the dispatcher's CTC screens, so they can actually see where specific trains are located in real time.
Mark Meyer
BaltACDI suspect NWO is only a crew change location for Intermodal trains that normally work at NWO. I suspect Garrett and Willard are the crew change locations for non-intermodal that are operating on the line.
Based on conversations on the cam chat, I think it's more than just IM. There are two trains that change crews in Deshler now, possibly based out of NWO.
BaltACD tree68 It's not unusual for CSX's NorthWest Ohio (North Baltimore) facility to have "no room at the inn." Trains will be will be stacked up all over the place, waiting for space. Since I don't track CSX trains as to their on-time performance, I don't know if it's because someone is early. or if NWO is just full. NWO is now a crew change point, so the arrival of an irregular train (bulk trains that Balt mentioned) could throw things off as well, especially if crews are scarce for some reason. I suspect NWO is only a crew change location for Intermodal trains that normally work at NWO. I suspect Garrett and Willard are the crew change locations for non-intermodal that are operating on the line.
tree68 It's not unusual for CSX's NorthWest Ohio (North Baltimore) facility to have "no room at the inn." Trains will be will be stacked up all over the place, waiting for space. Since I don't track CSX trains as to their on-time performance, I don't know if it's because someone is early. or if NWO is just full. NWO is now a crew change point, so the arrival of an irregular train (bulk trains that Balt mentioned) could throw things off as well, especially if crews are scarce for some reason.
Garrett no longer has scheduled crew changes. I suspect once crews out of Northwest are qualified everywhere into Chicago and no longer require pilots, the Garrett crew base will be for local work only. However there are lots of places to go into Chicago, so it will be awhile before the NWOH guys are quailfied everywhere.
The only thing that does not crew change at NWOH are UPS trains, which long pool to Willard, and Cincy trains, which swap at Deshler.
An "expensive model collector"
Depends what is going on. Sometimes the inbound crew will be held outside of town, or be lined in and they tie the train down (go home or to the hotel) or simply come in to town and swap w/the next outbound crew. When crews arrive on duty, they watch the train tracking and check GPS status to see what order the traffic is and exactly what train they will depart on. Pool crews are 'first in, first out". Just because you get called for the Z does not mean that is the train you will get. Crews depart in the order they are called. Gets interesting when a Z is involved w/junk symobls in the mix. Some trips you are the windshield, other days you are the bug.
SFbrkmnDepends what is going on. Sometimes the inbound crew will be held outside of town, or be lined in and they tie the train down (go home or to the hotel) or simply come in to town and swap w/the next outbound crew. When crews arrive on duty, they watch the train tracking and check GPS status to see what order the traffic is and exactly what train they will depart on. Pool crews are 'first in, first out". Just because you get called for the Z does not mean that is the train you will get. Crews depart in the order they are called. Gets interesting when a Z is involved w/junk symobls in the mix. Some trips you are the windshield, other days you are the bug.
Depending upon the specifics of the Agreement that is in effect - FIFO can work in different ways.
Crew is called for Train #1 that arrives on the call time of 0800 and the new crew boards the train which arrived 'on the law' meaning the new outbound crew witll have to perform the 'station work' at the on duty location, train performs the work and departs at 1030.
Train #3 arrives on its call time of 0830 - train has no station work and departs at 0845.
In the 'olden days' before computers, swapping crews wasn't much of a deal - with computers the crews names and ID's get attached to the trains they are called for in many data systems that the carriers maintain - swapping crews around in these computer systems can be a very involved affair.
The agreements that were in place my carrier applied FIFO to the trains crews were called for which is nominally the first train to arrive - UNLESS the train is to be yarded, handled by yard crews or given 1000 mile inspection and dispatched later. In such cases the Yardmaster is responsible for setting the call time of th train off the yard. Dispatchers are responsible for the call times of through trains.
As has been said, Sometimes you are the windschield and other times you are the bug. You never know, especially when your 'brothers' try to game the system.
BaltACD I work under the ATSF Eastern Lines agreement which could be different from BN agreements or foreign contracts. Yardmasters play very little role on our Wellks-Amaril pool, unless a train is coming into WEL yd for work. At Amaril, no through jobs come into AMA south yd. They will terminate there. In fact, most of the time the onduty TM @ Amaril has no clue what is going on w/through trains coming in for a crew swap unless some issue needs to be addressed, ie inspecting a car, changing out an etd. Let me tell ya about crew swaps--FIFO. One day several yrs ago, showed up at my o/d time. It was a mess. I was like 6th out in line. Kept getting paper swapped. On the final 'swap" the call sheet changed o/d times w/the crew ahead of us. I called the office to get the important matter corrected. I talked to Harry, who I have dealt w/before and always knew what was up. When I explained what was in error on the 830 board and what needed to be fixed, he stated "That %6$#. I'll get it fixed" (referring to the person who in error entered the wrong times.) Referring to craft code 29, many terminals do not have yardmasters, having been replaced by the footboard. Enid, OK (former BN) just abolished their spots in July. UP here in Wichita (ex MP) abolished theirs in August and now are worked by the FBYM. That craft is a dying breed indeed. SFbrkmn Depends what is going on. Sometimes the inbound crew will be held outside of town, or be lined in and they tie the train down (go home or to the hotel) or simply come in to town and swap w/the next outbound crew. When crews arrive on duty, they watch the train tracking and check GPS status to see what order the traffic is and exactly what train they will depart on. Pool crews are 'first in, first out". Just because you get called for the Z does not mean that is the train you will get. Crews depart in the order they are called. Gets interesting when a Z is involved w/junk symobls in the mix. Some trips you are the windshield, other days you are the bug. Depending upon the specifics of the Agreement that is in effect - FIFO can work in different ways. Crew is called for Train #1 that arrives on the call time of 0800 and the new crew boards the train which arrived 'on the law' meaning the new outbound crew witll have to perform the 'station work' at the on duty location, train performs the work and departs at 1030. Train #3 arrives on its call time of 0830 - train has no station work and departs at 0845. In the 'olden days' before computers, swapping crews wasn't much of a deal - with computers the crews names and ID's get attached to the trains they are called for in many data systems that the carriers maintain - swapping crews around in these computer systems can be a very involved affair. The agreements that were in place my carrier applied FIFO to the trains crews were called for which is nominally the first train to arrive - UNLESS the train is to be yarded, handled by yard crews or given 1000 mile inspection and dispatched later. In such cases the Yardmaster is responsible for setting the call time of th train off the yard. Dispatchers are responsible for the call times of through trains. As has been said, Sometimes you are the windschield and other times you are the bug. You never know, especially when your 'brothers' try to game the system.
I work under the ATSF Eastern Lines agreement which could be different from BN agreements or foreign contracts. Yardmasters play very little role on our Wellks-Amaril pool, unless a train is coming into WEL yd for work. At Amaril, no through jobs come into AMA south yd. They will terminate there. In fact, most of the time the onduty TM @ Amaril has no clue what is going on w/through trains coming in for a crew swap unless some issue needs to be addressed, ie inspecting a car, changing out an etd. Let me tell ya about crew swaps--FIFO. One day several yrs ago, showed up at my o/d time. It was a mess. I was like 6th out in line. Kept getting paper swapped. On the final 'swap" the call sheet changed o/d times w/the crew ahead of us. I called the office to get the important matter corrected. I talked to Harry, who I have dealt w/before and always knew what was up. When I explained what was in error on the 830 board and what needed to be fixed, he stated "That %6$#. I'll get it fixed" (referring to the person who in error entered the wrong times.) Referring to craft code 29, many terminals do not have yardmasters, having been replaced by the footboard. Enid, OK (former BN) just abolished their spots in July. UP here in Wichita (ex MP) abolished theirs in August and now are worked by the FBYM. That craft is a dying breed indeed.
SFbrkmn Depends what is going on. Sometimes the inbound crew will be held outside of town, or be lined in and they tie the train down (go home or to the hotel) or simply come in to town and swap w/the next outbound crew. When crews arrive on duty, they watch the train tracking and check GPS status to see what order the traffic is and exactly what train they will depart on. Pool crews are 'first in, first out". Just because you get called for the Z does not mean that is the train you will get. Crews depart in the order they are called. Gets interesting when a Z is involved w/junk symobls in the mix. Some trips you are the windshield, other days you are the bug.
The old heads (pre-UP) say they were called for a specific time, not a specific train. The first train that came in that needed a crew was the one they got. If a crew lined up for a junk manifest, but than that train was runaround by the Bird (hot intermodal, remember the "falcon"), they got the Bird. I've heard there were some "heated discussions" on the yard lead on who got what train.
Now we're called for a specific train. They can, and do, switch crews around if a train falls down. Sometimes you get a better train, sometimes you don't.
We work first in/first out only when arriving at our home terminal. At the away from home terminal we are "blue printed." That means we tie up on the AFHT board in the same order we left home. Our Long Pool is blue printed on both ends. They maintain their position on both ends.
Jeff
jeffhergertThe old heads (pre-UP) say they were called for a specific time, not a specific train. The first train that came in that needed a crew was the one they got. If a crew lined up for a junk manifest, but than that train was runaround by the Bird (hot intermodal, remember the "falcon"), they got the Bird. I've heard there were some "heated discussions" on the yard lead on who got what train. Now we're called for a specific train. They can, and do, switch crews around if a train falls down. Sometimes you get a better train, sometimes you don't. We work first in/first out only when arriving at our home terminal. At the away from home terminal we are "blue printed." That means we tie up on the AFHT board in the same order we left home. Our Long Pool is blue printed on both ends. They maintain their position on both ends. Jeff
Across CSX there have been about as many different forms of crew ordering and calling as the mind of man can devise.
Assigned trains at assigned time - on both endsAssigned trains at at Home Terminals - FIFO pool at AFHTFIFO Pool Turns at both endsTime Assigned Turn at Home - FIFO at AFHTWhere highway tranportation is good - some crews are sent home for AFHT on arrival and crews are Deadheaded from the home terminal to protect trains from the AFHT.
The minds of T&E Local Chairmen are a fertile field for devising what they think are the best way of handling calling to the benefit of their constituents. During my employment, if they could sell their plan to Division Management it would be implemented.
Then you get to locations where two or more seniority districts each share in the manning requirement of a particular run with the share percentage being defined by the mileage percentage each district has in the overall run.
The trickest territory I came across was the crews that were home terminal in Savannah and worked to Waycross, Jacksonville and Fitzgerald, GA. Crews called from Savannah could be called on trains to either Waycross or Jacksonville. A crew called Savannah to Waycross could be put to bed and would work FIFO to Jacksonville except if there were a 'Mediator' crew involved (first crew called from Savannah or Jacksonville after 0100 or 1300 were considered the Mediator) the Mediator had first right to a train going to the terminal in the direction of their travel. Crews working into Jacksonville would protect calls to three terminals - Waycross, Fitzgerald and Savannah on a FIFO basis. Crews called Jacksonville to Fitzgerald would take rest at Fitzgerald and work FIFO back to Jacksonville. Unlucky crews could make more than one round trip to Fitzgerald. There were no runs from Savannah to Fitzgerald.
Among the different Union Agreements that were in effect on CSX in different areas - B&O Agreement, C&O Agreement, L&N Agreement, SBD Agreement, ACL Orangebook Agreemane, Georgia RR Agreement - no two were the same and each were modified by side agreements that covered specific local situations.
I can only speak for the ATSF during the time I worked for it early in my transportation career. The trains that handled UPS, typically 199 and 198 and 991 and 891 for example, they were the premier expedited TOFC trains and had contractual transit times to operate against. I was in the power bureau in Chicago one day and two of those trains were highlighted in red and I was told they were behind schedule and there would be monetary penalties against the ATSF if the trailers were grounded past the agreed upon transit times. As they were the premier trains, they didn't run late very often.
do not know how it is done today but Frisco had a freight schedule, used to be on back page of passenger timetable. But it only showed trains leaving and arriving in St. Louis, not the whole system. Dad could hear a train leaving at 10 pm and say there goes #845 or whatever the number was. You could hear the horns blowing for crossings even from far away if the wind was right, no such thing as no horn zones in those days. I can still hear them leaving at night if I happen to wake up, but have no idea of any schedule today.
Sunnylanddo not know how it is done today but Frisco had a freight schedule, used to be on back page of passenger timetable. But it only showed trains leaving and arriving in St. Louis, not the whole system. Dad could hear a train leaving at 10 pm and say there goes #845 or whatever the number was. You could hear the horns blowing for crossings even from far away if the wind was right, no such thing as no horn zones in those days. I can still hear them leaving at night if I happen to wake up, but have no idea of any schedule today.
When I hired out on the B&O's St. Louis Division, the employee timetable contained schedules for 1st, 2nd and 3rd class trains and also assigned the superiority of direction to those schedules. Public timetables only contained schedules for 1st Class trains.
Except for 1st Class, trains did not operate exactly on the 2nd & 3rd Class schedules - the schedules were there as a tool for the Train Dispatchers to operate their railraod's. One could not depend on a particular Operating Plan train being operated on any particular scheduled train number. The Operating Plan Train 'Northeasterner' could opeate from E.St. Lous as 2nd Class train 92 to Shops (Washington, IN) and potentially as 2nd Class train 98 from Shops to Cincinnati. The two Dispatching districts split at Shops and each Dispatcher was responsible for running his own segment of the railroad.
Pool board activation also enters the fray on calls. Most BNSF boards are activation boards, but there are a few which are not. Activation is every four hours. Sometimes the MCO's get it right, other times they don't. I have been called outside of an activation window, of which I simply reject the call. We as trainmen have to be held accountable, so does crew management. Then there the ones that make you scratch your head: getting activated at 0400 and not getting an on duty call until 14 1/2 hrs later! This generated an AP claim that was paid promptly. $$$ ching. Activation is the safety net of being on a pool board. For many trainmen, it buys an extra 4 hours of overnight sleep.
SFbrkmnPool board activation also enters the fray on calls. Most BNSF boards are activation boards, but there are a few which are not. Activation is every four hours. Sometimes the MCO's get it right, other times they don't. I have been called outside of an activation window, of which I simply reject the call. We as trainmen have to be held accountable, so does crew management. Then there the ones that make you scratch your head: getting activated at 0400 and not getting an on duty call until 14 1/2 hrs later! This generated an AP claim that was paid promptly. $$$ ching. Activation is the safety net of being on a pool board. For many trainmen, it buys an extra 4 hours of overnight sleep.
Another device conceived by people in the field to get Crew Calling 'right'. Reality dents every system. There is no 'perfect' way to call crews to duty.
SFbrkmn Pool board activation also enters the fray on calls. Most BNSF boards are activation boards, but there are a few which are not. Activation is every four hours. Sometimes the MCO's get it right, other times they don't. I have been called outside of an activation window, of which I simply reject the call. We as trainmen have to be held accountable, so does crew management. Then there the ones that make you scratch your head: getting activated at 0400 and not getting an on duty call until 14 1/2 hrs later! This generated an AP claim that was paid promptly. $$$ ching. Activation is the safety net of being on a pool board. For many trainmen, it buys an extra 4 hours of overnight sleep.
That's (Activation) a new one for me. How's it work?
Getting a claim paid promptly? Come on now, it isn't April 1st.
MCO's activate a selected number of engrs & condrs every four hours to be put on the atcaivation both at home and AFHT. You are not required to take a call, nor should you, if inactive and not yet activated. Once activated, you are not required to take a call, nor should you, until those first four hours are up. "AP' claims are the direct result of the MCO's not doing their jobs correct. This is about the only claim that we can get paid either on that half, or the next one, there are some that timekeeping likes to drag out. Has not happened to me as of yet but with that bunch, anything is possible
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