zugmannI promise to sell my integrity only to the highest bidder!
Good for you!
And remember what Al Capone said, "An honest politician is one who when he gets bought, stays bought!"
Al also said, "Vote early and vote often!" Well, it WAS Chicago after all!
On the other hand, John Dillinger didn't have much use for elected officials, hence his famous saying, "NEVER trust an automatic or a D.A.'s deal!"
Flintlock76Besides, if I want to see women in hot outfits there's always the "Paramus Daily Voice!"
There are hot women in hot outfits in Paramus? The only hot women I ever recall there were those who had low Freon when stuck in traffic on 17 or 4 in summer.
Overmod SD70Dude As every democracy needs an opposition, I suggest bringing back these guys: But they were never Americans, and are now really 'rhinos in name only'.
SD70Dude As every democracy needs an opposition, I suggest bringing back these guys:
But they were never Americans, and are now really 'rhinos in name only'.
That's ok, aboot time you imported some. Would go nicely with that other RINO group eh?
Overmod I say we revive the Antarctica Liberation Front. Now in these days of global warming, soon to reveal the wealth of natural resources as the ice melts, it is more than ever time to Free the Continent of Destiny!
I say we revive the Antarctica Liberation Front. Now in these days of global warming, soon to reveal the wealth of natural resources as the ice melts, it is more than ever time to Free the Continent of Destiny!
Will penguins get to vote? Gotta think of the original inhabitants.......
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Overmod Flintlock76 Besides, if I want to see women in hot outfits there's always the "Paramus Daily Voice!" There are hot women in hot outfits in Paramus? The only hot women I ever recall were those who had low Freon when stuck in traffic on 17 or 4 in summer.
Flintlock76 Besides, if I want to see women in hot outfits there's always the "Paramus Daily Voice!"
There are hot women in hot outfits in Paramus? The only hot women I ever recall were those who had low Freon when stuck in traffic on 17 or 4 in summer.
Son, you've been outta Jersey WAY too long!
Mind you, at my age I only go home for the bakeries. And the diners. And the burger, hot dog, and ice cream joints.
The "scenery's" pretty good at all the above! Not talking about the food either.
Here. Maybe this'll make you happy:
http://www.dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/englewood/
Don't worry, Tenafly's included!
SD70DudeWill penguins get to vote? Gotta think of the original inhabitants.......
They can't be any worse to deal with than the Wet'suwet'en; they never go back on their word, and they're always dressed correctly for dinner.
SD70Dude Overmod SD70Dude As every democracy needs an opposition, I suggest bringing back these guys: But they were never Americans, and are now really 'rhinos in name only'. That's ok, aboot time you imported some. Would go nicely with that other RINO group eh? Overmod I say we revive the Antarctica Liberation Front. Now in these days of global warming, soon to reveal the wealth of natural resources as the ice melts, it is more than ever time to Free the Continent of Destiny! Will penguins get to vote? Gotta think of the original inhabitants.......
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68Alas, no. Although given the alternatives with which we were presented, I do feel he was the better choice.
You voted for him and you claim not to be a Trump supporter? You certainly act like one, look at all the questions you have avoided on the subject.
DeggestyWell said, Larry. I have my thoughts about politics, but since these forums are not intended to be political forums, it is irksome to read any comment that is political--especially since the rules for using the forums forbid such comments.
Speak to "Larry" about that, he initiated the political discussion. You congratulate him on his post yet you decry the use of this forum for politics when you yourself contributed by congratulating "Larry" ("Well said, Larry") on his post.
Well if it is the wrong paradigm, try using a quarter to see if you can get a nickel in change.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
MiningmanEqual Time
zugmann Vote for Zug.
Vote for Zug.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD Euclid How many preventable deaths would that be? The current death toll is now over 80,000 with more to come. Will we look back and see that this wrong paradigm cost 50,000 lives? As we finally see the bigger picture, the statistics will paint a very stark picture of the consequences of not being able to respond to the new paradigm quickly enough. Until the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' are changed by those the sanctify such treatments - from a 'practitioners' legal point of view - if there is a bad outcome from using the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' they are "protected" when the malpractice and wrongful death law suits come - AND THEY WILL. If there is a bad outcome and treatment other than the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' were followed - the practitioner will probably lose insurability from any malpractice insurer, if they are able to keep their medical license. While everything I have seen would indicate hyperbaric oxygen treatment may be more promising - it has not achieved 'official' status as a accepted treatment. The death toll will continue, unfortunately. Healthcare and health insurance have painted themselves into a corner from being proactive in being able to explore alternative treatments. When I retired - it took a year to get RR Medicare to understand that I had infact retired and they were on the primary hook for my healthcare expenses. Nothing moves fast in the world of healthcare and healthcare insurance.
Euclid How many preventable deaths would that be? The current death toll is now over 80,000 with more to come. Will we look back and see that this wrong paradigm cost 50,000 lives? As we finally see the bigger picture, the statistics will paint a very stark picture of the consequences of not being able to respond to the new paradigm quickly enough.
Until the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' are changed by those the sanctify such treatments - from a 'practitioners' legal point of view - if there is a bad outcome from using the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' they are "protected" when the malpractice and wrongful death law suits come - AND THEY WILL. If there is a bad outcome and treatment other than the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' were followed - the practitioner will probably lose insurability from any malpractice insurer, if they are able to keep their medical license.
While everything I have seen would indicate hyperbaric oxygen treatment may be more promising - it has not achieved 'official' status as a accepted treatment. The death toll will continue, unfortunately. Healthcare and health insurance have painted themselves into a corner from being proactive in being able to explore alternative treatments.
When I retired - it took a year to get RR Medicare to understand that I had infact retired and they were on the primary hook for my healthcare expenses. Nothing moves fast in the world of healthcare and healthcare insurance.
WRONG PARADIGM = MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ?
It may be that treating the patients with the “wrong paradigm” is the malpractice. After all, that is causing patient deaths. What could be a stronger case of medical malpractice than that?
This would be especially true if a safer alternative were known, as is the case here. If the use of ventilators amounts to malpractice, who would be the defendant in a lawsuit? While it involves the medical profession, the entire pandemic response is the work of the Government. And with its deep pockets, the government is the only entity that could pay the claim.
Euclid BaltACD Euclid How many preventable deaths would that be? The current death toll is now over 80,000 with more to come. Will we look back and see that this wrong paradigm cost 50,000 lives? As we finally see the bigger picture, the statistics will paint a very stark picture of the consequences of not being able to respond to the new paradigm quickly enough. Until the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' are changed by those the sanctify such treatments - from a 'practitioners' legal point of view - if there is a bad outcome from using the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' they are "protected" when the malpractice and wrongful death law suits come - AND THEY WILL. If there is a bad outcome and treatment other than the 'generally accepted principles of treatment' were followed - the practitioner will probably lose insurability from any malpractice insurer, if they are able to keep their medical license. While everything I have seen would indicate hyperbaric oxygen treatment may be more promising - it has not achieved 'official' status as a accepted treatment. The death toll will continue, unfortunately. Healthcare and health insurance have painted themselves into a corner from being proactive in being able to explore alternative treatments. When I retired - it took a year to get RR Medicare to understand that I had infact retired and they were on the primary hook for my healthcare expenses. Nothing moves fast in the world of healthcare and healthcare insurance. WRONG PARADIGM = MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ? It may be that treating the patients with the “wrong paradigm” is the malpractice. After all, that is causing patient deaths. What could be a stronger case of medical malpractice than that? This would be especially true if a safer alternative were known, as is the case here. If the use of ventilators amounts to malpractice, who would be the defendant in a lawsuit? While it involves the medical profession, the entire pandemic response is the work of the Government. And with its deep pockets, the government is the only entity that could pay the claim.
Malpractice Lawsuits and the of treating a 'new disease' have very little in common. Those filing the lawsuits want someone to PAY for the bad outcome. If a medical professional uses some procedure or technique that is not the 'generally accepted' one for the condition, that becomes the 'prima facia' evidence that proves that the practitioner did not treat the individual in the appropriate manner. Cha Ching!
Malpractice suits are not about medicine they are about the Benjamins. Benjamins for bad outcomes - even when everything may have be done correctly. Medicne has yet to reach the point where it can ALWAYS prevent death and/or serious consequence to all the cases that they get inolved in - because they aren't perfect healers they get sued.
Sonners is a "doctor" only by the wildest interpretation; he's a chiropractor wildly out of any field of 'expertise' trading on fancy letter 'credentials' to convince the unwary Euclids of this world that he knows medical things about SARS-CoV-2. He invokes things like HBOT's ability to relieve infection by obligate anaerobes with a straight face as though it had self-evident relevance to viral infections; his "knowledge" of either the symptoms of ARDS or effective oxygenation strategies for advanced cases is literally frightening in the danger that they pose to actual sufferers who might try this abject quackery in the hope it is legitimate procedure arrived at by medical 'science'.
Now I have been a proponent of HBOT (enriched-oxygen HBOT, which I assume is what Sommers and his wife actually peddle) and understand quite well what the approach will and will not do. Until I see him explain how he proposes to monitor patients with the advanced symptoms of ARDS, quite possibly still infectious in some sense, inside the chambers he is intent on peddling "instead of lethal ventilators" you will excuse me while I refuse to take him even remotely seriously in this context.
Overmod,
I am not drawing any conclusions about this. I know nothing about Sonners. There are more references to this issue than Dr. Sonners. To be totally clear, I do not believe anything anybody says about this pandemic or anything related to it. I only listen to what they say.
EuclidTo be totally clear, I do not believe anything anybody says about this pandemic or anything related to it. I only listen to what they say.
That is certainly a reasonable approach, and moreover there is (at least I think) no reason not to share the results of your listening with forums like this. Dave Klepper does this regularly with unvetted Israeli sources and you do not hear me complain about the messenger.
On the other hand I have a longstanding horror of predatory quackery, particularly in the general area of cancer treatment, and I confess a general despication of 'disciplines' like chiropraxis or homeopathy (or alchemy) particularly when they start their all-too-typical self-serving connivance about the 'allopathic' or 'established' or whatever medical community as it has evolved in our Western tradition.
Perhaps quite wrongly, I interpreted some of your posting in this thread to be acceptance of Sommers as an alternative authority of some source in treatment of COVID-19, and while I don't mind discussion of the actual pros and cons of proposed therapies, it really grinds my gears to see wack approaches treated like science, or flack approaches like that antibody 'cure' report treated with the same respect one might have for honestly peer-reviewed reporting.
So much for the contaminated surfaces that we have all been stewing about over the last several weeks. I guess this would be paradigm flipped:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/21/virus-does-not-spread-easily-contaminated-surfaces-or-animals-revised-cdc-website-states/
From the link:
"The CDC made another key change to its website, clarifying what sources are not major risks. Under the new heading “The virus does not spread easily in other ways,” the agency explains that touching contaminated objects or surfaces does not appear to be a significant mode of transmission. The same is true for exposure to infected animals."
It's been accepted knowledge for decades that pathogens can't survive very long once they've left the host, in this case a warm body.
WHY they've been saying otherwise for weeks is beyond me.
Maybe they've just been playing it safe or practicing "CYA," but the one constant through this whole episode still seems to be that among the experts where you get five of them together, you get six opinions.
Yes, the experts are free to shift their explanations. But the one thing they all seem to agree on is that the economy should be shut down indefinitely just in case.
Euclid But the one thing they all seem to agree on is that the economy should be shut down indefinitely just in case.
Well, both you and I and more and more people are realizing that option's just not sustainable anymore.
With 39 million unemployed, businesses large and small failing, towns, cities, counties and states facing bankruptcy and personnel furloughs and layoffs, even the most reluctant to "pull the trigger" governors are going to have to make a hard, tough decision very soon. Some are doing it now, which is good. This can't go on.
Keep people informed and let them choose their own level of risk. There's nothing else to do.
Flintlock76WHY they've been saying otherwise for weeks is beyond me.
Those governors still dragging their feet are going to find it harder and harder to continue to do so as states that are opening up are not experiencing the predicted surges.
[quote user="tree68"]Those governors still dragging their feet
Well, they're afraid, and in a way I can't blame them.
I'd guess most have found themselves in a position they never expected to find themselves in. Most probably expected nothing more of the office than advancing a political agenda, maybe a springboard to somewhere or something else, maybe just the signing of a few pieces of legislation every now and then and enjoying the perks of the office like the governor's mansion and limo rides with state police escorts. Maybe even meeting a celebrity or two or three and basking in their reflected glow.
Well, now they're on the hot seat, and finding out what the office can really entail.
Welcome to the real world of high command and how much "fun" it can be.
And people wonder why General Eisenhower went through four packs of Camels a day.
You're giving them way to much credit.
Quoting Flintlock "And people wonder why General Eisenhower went through four packs of Camels a day.."
He had to keep de Gaulle and Monty happy--and defeat the Germans.
"
Johnny
DeggestyHe had to keep de Gaulle and Monty happy
Yeah Johnny, that'd turn me into a four-pack-a-day man!
De Gaulle was tough enough, but Monty was described as "Wonderful to serve under, tough to serve with, and impossible to serve over!"
I wonder if Ike felt like Patton did...
"God save us from our friends, we can handle the enemy!"
tree68 You're giving them way to much credit.
Yeah maybe, but I'm just trying to be fair, you know?
The governors are there for Trump to blame in the event of failure. They will not share in the success should there be any.
The governors aren't there for Mr. Trump to do anything with. In the end they'll have to answer to the voters of their respective states for what they did or didn't do. If they performed well they've got nothing to worry about. If they didn't then all the angels in Heaven coming down to give them endorsements won't do them any good.
Flintlock76The governors aren't there for Mr. Trump to do anything with. In the end they'll have to answer to the voters of their respective states for what they did or didn't do. If they performed well they've got nothing to worry about. If they didn't then all the angels in Heaven coming down to give them endorsements won't do them any good.
Trump has declined responsibility for anything and everything and dumped policy making on the Governors, as such Trump is no longer a leader in the issue.
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