MidlandMike But still it seems like every year, local news reports some ones pickup would break thru the ice. I once thought about driving on the ice, but insurance would not cover it, you have to cover the cost of recovery, and then pay the environmental fine.
My uncle was a diver with the Oakland County Sheriff's Department in the 1960's. They did a vehicle recovery (no lives were lost) one year after a carload of kids ventured onto the ice, I think it was with a Corvair.
The ice "bellied" under the weight of the car, making it uphill in all directions, thus impossible to drive out of. The kids bailed and the car sunk.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 MidlandMike But still it seems like every year, local news reports some ones pickup would break thru the ice. I once thought about driving on the ice, but insurance would not cover it, you have to cover the cost of recovery, and then pay the environmental fine. My uncle was a diver with the Oakland County Sheriff's Department in the 1960's. They did a vehicle recovery (no lives were lost) one year after a carload of kids ventured onto the ice, I think it was with a Corvair. The ice "bellied" under the weight of the car, making it uphill in all directions, thus impossible to drive out of. The kids bailed and the car sunk.
Then, of course, there was this incident in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin four years ago:
https://fox6now.com/2016/02/06/breaking-several-cars-fall-through-ice-at-lake-genevas-winterfest/
Recovery from a lake would probably not be an easy job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8pLzhjJY1s
rdamon Sounds like the making for a series on the Discovery Channel
Sounds like the making for a series on the Discovery Channel
WELL!!: It is not the Discovery Channel;but it is the HISTORY Channel !
Deja vu , all over again! "The Curse of Civil War Gold" Apparently, it is scheduled to pick up again this Spring.[2nd season, after a 1 yr delay.].. More TV to binge watch while self-quarantined!
see link @ https://www.mlive.com/news/erry-2018/04/eb202543c18212/what_we_learned_from_historys.html
"...
It comes more than a year after the finale of the first season that ended on a cliff hanger when the stars of the show reviewed a dive video that they believed revealed a partially buried gold bar at the bottom of Lake Michigan near Frankfort.
They’re searching for $140 million worth of gold bars believed to be in the lake.
“One thing you can’t do is, you can’t quit now,” said Michigan-based treasure hunter Marty Lagina at the conclusion of “Curse of Civil War Gold.” Lagina also starts in a similar show "The Curse of Oak Island.”..."
So where are Chad T., and his popcorn machine, now ???
In the 50's, My father took us, the whole family, ice fishing on Saginaw Bay and Lake Huron off Tawas City, Mi. He drove the car out on the ice to fish. At Tawas he drove a mile or so out as I recall. Hated those COLD!!! trips, but he was a diehard fisherman. He gave up after 3 or 4 tries, probably tired of all the complaining.
There is indeed a locomotive sitting sunk in the mud West of Rock Lake. There is a basic description on the Tyranena Brewing Company website. The wreck is located somewhere between Lake Mills, WI and Cottage Grove, WI on the Glacial Drumlin Bicycle Trail. Another highlight of the trail is that there was a robber's hideaway, back in the 1800's. Sadly, I was on the trail recently and the signs for these sights seem to have disappeared.
Semper Vaporo Yes, Steam Locos were used on frozen lakes and rivers, but not the size of a mainline standard gauge engine... no Yellowstones, or Big Boys. Small, narrow gauge 0-4-0's on short sections of track with the ties laid directly on the ice. Some small steam locos could be moved around by a couple of men if it derailed, so it would not be THAT heavy. And note this lake is in Wisconsin (though only about 35 miles from the border with Illinois), But not southern Illinois where a frozen lake might be questionable for physical support.
Yes, Steam Locos were used on frozen lakes and rivers, but not the size of a mainline standard gauge engine... no Yellowstones, or Big Boys.
Small, narrow gauge 0-4-0's on short sections of track with the ties laid directly on the ice. Some small steam locos could be moved around by a couple of men if it derailed, so it would not be THAT heavy.
And note this lake is in Wisconsin (though only about 35 miles from the border with Illinois), But not southern Illinois where a frozen lake might be questionable for physical support.
If that was done at all as a practice I would think it would be fairly rare. As mentioned earlier primary methods used were horses and sleds or just floating the ice blocks from the center of the lake to the edges by people walking alongside cut canals with ice pick poles. A number of railroads in SE Wisconsin had small Ice House sprurs to local lakes including the Milwaukee Road. The spurs were not very long from the main branch or mainline. Milwaukee Roads Twin Cities Mainline went through a large patch of ice producing lakes in Waukesha County and in that circumstance the spurs went just a short distance from the mainline to reach the ice house. Pewaukee Lake was a large producer and had two large ice houses next two it at one time and several large resort hotels within walking distance of the passenger depot. It is amazing how similar Ice Tongs and Railroad Tie carrying tongs look in appearance. I tend to believe there was some dual use going on there. A friend of the family had old Ice Tongs for harvesting he found scuba diving a local area lake in Wisconsin that he also used to carry old Railroad ties away to use for landscaping..........see below:
Ice Tongs:
https://i.etsystatic.com/11732248/r/il/60ea97/4118493109/il_1588xN.4118493109_b8fl.jpg
Railroad Tie Tongs:
https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=5156056699&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=yCgyPqOGSln3V5aBF8wTi73AAg0nV7hS
Lefty142 There is indeed a locomotive sitting sunk in the mud West of Rock Lake. There is a basic description on the Tyranena Brewing Company website. The wreck is located somewhere between Lake Mills, WI and Cottage Grove, WI on the Glacial Drumlin Bicycle Trail. Another highlight of the trail is that there was a robber's hideaway, back in the 1800's. Sadly, I was on the trail recently and the signs for these sights seem to have disappeared.
Have biked that trail, too. Former C&NW. It's thought that there are pyramidal structures deep in Rock Lake. Nearby Aztalan is an archaeological site thought to go back to 1000 AD. Even found to have artifacts exhibiting cannibalism.
GrampEven found to have artifacts exhibiting cannibalism.
Don't rock the boat man. Your going against the narrative.....heh-heh.
On a less sarcastic note, I think the railroad history of Wisconsin in particular is a really fascinating one, expecially the narrow gauge lines in the SW.
I remember reading a long time ago that in the very early days of railroading, one winter New York City experienced such a river freeze that a track was laid across one of the rivers. It may have been the Hudson as I believe the freight cars (only) went from NJ to NYC. The hauling was done by horse power one car at a time and a decent distance seperating the cars while crossing. Keep in mind that the earlier freight cars were tiny midgets compared to today's.
Supposedly, the last cold cycle ended in the US sometime in the late 1840's but for sure by 1850. Then the weather started changing to the warming trend that continues today. But the final years of the cold/hot cycles are supposedly the most extreme so it would have been darn cold during those 1840's winters in the Northeast. The most famous of the cold years was 1816 when it snowed in July. [Actually about a 3 year period when an Italian valcano erupted in 1815 and darkend the sky over Europe and North America for almost 3 years.]
Regarding the cold cycle, we used to go skiing in SW Massachusetts from about 1967 onward. The main slopes all had snow-making equipment and the smaller trails didn't. Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned. We had to ski on the main slopes only and that sure got boring after a while. Man-made snow by the end of the day would be scraped away and we had to ski on bare ice. Not fun and I gave up on skiiing by 1980 or so. Couldn't afford it once my parents weren't paying for it.
Thank You.
54light15 Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned.
Such is the case with snowmobiling around here, and a key factor in the Adirondack Rail Corridor fight. I figure it takes at least eight inches of packed snow to be able to sled on the corridor/tracks, and there have been less and less days each year where that was the case.
tree68 54light15 Up until about 1972 there was always adequate snow on the trails but after that, there never was enough to ski on so the trails were abandoned. Such is the case with snowmobiling around here, and a key factor in the Adirondack Rail Corridor fight. I figure it takes at least eight inches of packed snow to be able to sled on the corridor/tracks, and there have been less and less days each year where that was the case.
Many people in our region switched from snowmobiling to ATVs for recreation because of lower snow winters. They can be used year round, too.
GrampMany people in our region switched from snowmobiling to ATVs for recreation because of lower snow winters. They can be used year round, too.
I've never been a fan of snowmobiles and ATV's as recreational devices. Somehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area. I'll stay with my cross country skis.
CSSHEGEWISCH I've never been a fan of snowmobiles and ATV's as recreational devices. Somehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area. I'll stay with my cross country skis.
We have 2 Canoes, 3 kayaks and 2 power boats, and enjoy them all. The canoes and kayaks can take us places that the boats can't. But the 17' Beechcraft is much better suited to crabbing, and I don't even want to think about landing a 30#+ Chinook Salmon in a kayak, yet I have seen some do it. Then there is the 1968 Stevens SK class flatbottom with a Corvette spec'd 327 with a V-Drive, that will make you Smile , like none of the other watercraft. We drove from Portland, OR to Gardena, CA 2 weeks before my 3rd Birthday, and picked her up at the factory. Mom was the original owner, and passed her on to me two years ago on Father's Day. I couldn't have asked for a Better gift
Different people enjoy different things, what matters is Enjoying what you have
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Example, when I was in college, the outdoors club would sponsor a couple of hikes a year to search for the "Great Locomotive" - a supposedly abandoned steamer "out there someplace in the hills" (The campus was in a very rural area - a valley surrounded by hills). This had a smidgen of fact behind it. The area was logged around 1890-1910 (the hills were useless for farming and had been left as is by the early setttlers, but there was prime timber if you could get it out) and many of the trails through the woods (second growth forest of now mature trees that grew up after the state bought the clear cut logged out tracts on the cheap as recreation areas - a very wise idea in the long run) were originally loggger's roadbeds. We occasionally found spikes and rarely, tie plates (an extravagance most loggers ignored on lines that would be used for just a few years). Never found it and I hear today's club members are still looking...I picture a rusty old Shay or Climax, overgrown with vegetation.
CSSHEGEWISCHSomehow, the noise and exhaust takes away from the alleged goal of getting into a natural area.
That's also why the sleds like the railroad ROW - relatively flat with long, sweeping curves.
Even the general snowmobiling population is up in arms about the folks with loud exhausts, however.
Ringo58 Ever since I was a kid I loved trains. When I found out that there was an old trainline that passed through my neighborhood in the 1920s I wanted to find out more. I live in Antioch IL. There was a small ice house spur that got ice from the lakes around me. Ive always heard that there is a train in Rock Lake wi after the ice got too thin. Does anyone have any information to back this up? or more info about the ice spurs? Anything is greatly appreciated!!
Ever since I was a kid I loved trains. When I found out that there was an old trainline that passed through my neighborhood in the 1920s I wanted to find out more. I live in Antioch IL. There was a small ice house spur that got ice from the lakes around me. Ive always heard that there is a train in Rock Lake wi after the ice got too thin. Does anyone have any information to back this up? or more info about the ice spurs? Anything is greatly appreciated!!
I saw this forum while searching around online for historical information, as everyone that I knew while growing up on Rock Lake and Camp Lake didn't have much information. I felt I had to create an account just to chime in. Anyways, I can set the record straight and attest that there is indeed a train down there. Everyone that lives there eventually hears about it. I remember first being spooked by it as a kid, thinking that I would accidentally kid it or get stuck on it when we would swim out in the middle of the lake.
Regardless, I was specifically told that there was a neighbor somewhere in the neighborhood that had made a personal submersible and also dove down to look around the bottom of the lake. I figured I never took and skepticism against these claims. I don't see why anyone would lie about that stuff.
Regardless, I didn't know that people outside of our neighborhood knew about this "myth". That's cool to know.
These 'tales' of various 'sunken equipment' seem to pop up at various times. Myths,maybe? Occasionally, the real items emerge. From H.S.days, I recall a story of a young man who found a sunken caterpillar tractor in a local lake. He recovered it, rebuilt it, and eventually, used it to work with.
Recalling History, around the turn of the 20th Century, Ice was a common commodity,to be harvested, and stored for future uses; it was a serious wintertime industry, and in areas where cold weather permitted it, it was transported and stored in large quantities.
Large wagons were on thick lake and river ice; so itismconceivable,that tracks might be laid on that same thick ice, to faciitate movement of large quantities of ice tofurther storage locqtiuons. Remewmhber,as well, railroad equipment constructioin, at those times, were of much lighter weights,and locomotives were noi as heavy as they would become.
So to have some fall though the ice,is/or was, a real possibllty. See the Thread mentioned here, of the History Chanel's show "Search for Civil War Gold".
I actually have heard of this. I think there is a video on youtube about it.
samfp1943Recalling History, around the turn of the 20th Century, Ice was a common comodity,to be harevested, and stored for future uses; it was a serious wintertime industry, and in areas where cold weather permitted it, it was transported and stored in large quantities.
According to accounts, upwards of 50,000 tons of ice was harvested from Adirondack lakes each year for use at New York Central ice houses (and local suppliers, too - the legend of the White Lake ice house has the ice taking a substantial amount of time to melt after the structure burned down around it).
To my knowledge, the railroads never ventured onto the ice - it was cut and brought to shore, where it was loaded on reefers.
There is, however, at least one railcar at the bottom of an Adirondack lake, due to the barge on which it was being carried capsizing. Check out the Racquette Lake Railroad. Collis Huntington was partially responsible for it's construction.
It was a GE U-Boat, of course
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