Conductor, brakeman, or?

[wayne]

This may sound like a stupid question, but here goes: I know who the engineer is, but who are the other personnel called, i.e., the people on the ground throwing switches and in between the cars and sometimes the second person in the cab with the engineer? Aren't there sometimes two people on the ground?

[arbfbe]

Freight trains on the road used to have a Conductor and one two or three brakemen.
Passenger trains on the road had a Conductor, brakeman and perhaps a flagman.
Sometimes fireman might throw switches as well especially for helpers where there were no brakemen.
In the yard it was switchmen or switch foremen. Some busy locations had switch tenders or tower operators to line switches there.

Now freight trains on the road are just and engineer and a conductor except on some locals and some railroads where there are two engineers. ATMK has a brakeman and Conductor to line switches.

[enr2099]

On the E&N, on road freights, the conductor does the job of the fireman, brakeman, and conductor. On the passenger train the conductor is also the brakeman. Yard crews still work with an engineer, conductor and trainman.

[csxengineer98]

in the yard the forman on a yard job is a switchman...a untility man is switchman...the guy on the helpers is a brakeman...the guy on on a switcher or road train is a conductor...and on some switchers they will run an extra man to make it a 3 man crew..that is a brakeman also....their are very few places where thier are fireman on trains anymore...amtrak use to have them per union agreement that trains that run over so many miles have to have a engineer and a fireman..but to save money..amtrak as cut the milage runs down and change engin crews at the end of the mileage so they can
run just an engineer..and get ride of the fireman...
back in the old days...freight trains use to be 6 man crews....a engineer..fireman...head and rear flagman...and conductor........and brakeman..... as far as fireman..they just phased them out..with buyouts and promotions to engineer....some old heads still have firemans rights...but all that dose is gives them assesse to a reserver board if they cant hold as engineers...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Over this way on the CP all freight trains have a Conductor and an Engineer, 2 man crew.
Road Switchers have a Conductor an Engineer and a Brakeman, 3 man crew.
In the Yard you have a Yard Service Employee (Conductor) and a Yard Helper (Brakeman) no yard crews use engineers anymore because of belt pack, 2 man crew.

In some cases Freight Trains will run with a brakeman if there is a certain amount of work that will be done en route, this rarely happends as the railway doesn't want to run 3 man crews, so they always keep work en route to a minimum.

That's basically how it works these days. No Brakemen are actual brakeman, they are qualified conductors that don't have enough seniority to hold a regular conductors job.

It's down from the good old days when they ran 3 people on the head end (Engineer, Fireman, Head End Brakeman) and 2 in the caboose (Conductor, Tail End Brakemen).

[Anonymous]

In the old days certain passenger trains with a working baggage car for checked baggage, there was a train baggageman. those jobs went to the brakemen's board. On the Milwaukee, Amtrak number 9, the Hiawatha would have an engineer, fireman, train baggageman, head brakeman, conductor and flagman. On the IC, for example, the head brakeman on a passenger job could also be the baggageman.
In Indiana in the old days freight trains with more than 69 cars had to have a third brakeman. The Monon had a type of "head end caboose" that looked like a freight version of a baggage car for that purpose.
Mitch

[wabash1]

over here we still have firemen , but mostly we have is engineer and conductor and no conductor does fireman work. when we have fireman ( aka let ) and to the extent 2nd engineers. it makes it easier on the engineer. the reason for the 2nd engineer is he is already a lic to run he is just learning the teritory . he gets paid regular pay just like the regular engineer. let are just learning they are not lic to run solo the contract they work under is the firemans contract. and are paid accordingly

[Anonymous]

I get confused by the various job titles of the train crew too, but I do know that passenger trains in Canada are no longer run by a conductor, but by a "trainman", or the more politically correct: "trainPERSON". As well, on freight trains here, I think that if there is one crewman working with the engineer, he is considered the conducter, if there is two crewman besides the engineer, then one is conducter, and the other brakeman. Don't quote me on this, though.

[Anonymous]

Trainman is a term used by several American railroads and it encompassed:
Brakeman, Flagman, Baggageman etc. It was sinmply a matter of local terminology.
VIA Rail Canada recently did away with the Conductor/Brakeman/Trainman within the BODY of their passenger trains. On VIA trains, all OPERATING personell (i.e. Engineers and Conductors) are stationed on the locomotive and rarely, if ever, have contact with the passengers.
Duties formerly covered by the Conductor are now covered by a NON OPERATING employee.
- On some passenger railroads in the United States, there was an ASSISTANT CONDUCTOR position on certain trains. Traditionally, this position carried a slight increase in pay over the brakeman / trainman/ flagman. The position was just as it sounded in title: ASSISTANT to the Conductor.
When Amtrak began employing their OWN train crews rather than using those of host railroads in 1983, they designated ALL trainmen/brakemen as ASSISTANT CONDUCTORS. This was largely in the name of political correctness, and avoided the use of the suffix "MAN". In the opinion of some, myself included, this was a twisting of the term, as it implied that an entry level beginner was a seasoned veteren, on the verge of a promotion that took his conductor years (and perhaps decades) of work and study to achieve.
That's all moot now, as nearly all railroads hire people off the street as "CONDUCTORS". It's kind of sad, I'm sure that tens of thousands of old Conductors are rolling over in their graves

[Anonymous]

I'm not rolling over in my grave but I dislike the term "assistant conductor," as applied to what really is a brakeman/woman's position. It would have been better to title the job, "train crew."

In the old days the Assistant Conductor was a promoted employee that worked passenger trains that required additional ticket collection help. On some railroads the union contract prohibited brakemen, trainmen, et. al. to collect tickets, or re-assign accomodations. On Milwaukee Road suburban trains, there was one brakeman, and one conductor. All the other collectors were promoted "Assistant Conductors." Usually a train had to be over a certain amount of cars to require an assistant. On the Milwaukee Road a long passenger train out of Chicago could have:

Train baggageman
Head Brakeman
Flagman
Conductor (who would collect tickets with the Pullman Conductor in the sleepers)
Assistant Conductor (who the train conductor made collect the coaches)
Pullman Conductor (Non-operating guy who handled the space of Pullman operated sleeping cars)
And if the train had Milwaukee Road operated "Turalux Sleepers," a Milwaukee Road Sleeping Car Conductor, who was employeed by the dining car department. If there were more than one parlor car, he was the "Parlor Car Conductor."
On the Northwestern, on the "Twin Cities 400," the Assistant Conductor handled the parlor cars of which there were 3 or 4.
If there was only one first-class car, the Pullman Porter was the "Porter-in-charge," and was responsible for those tickets.

Assistant conductors and Milwaukee Road Sleeping Car conductors ;lasted well into the Amtrak era. During the holidays assistant Conductors were common between Chicago and Milwaukee. The Sleeping Car Conductors, who still wore Milwaukee Road uniforms, were assigned to 7 & 8 regularly as these trains had more than one sleeper. They worked from Chicago to the Twin Cities.

Mitch

[nobullchitbids]

While I realize that "engineer" is so much a part of American parliance that it probably is here to stay, the correct term for the fellow who runs the engine is "engineman." An "engineer" is someone who calculates cycloid curves so that the engine (we hope) will stay on the track.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nobullchitbids

While I realize that "engineer" is so much a part of American parliance that it probably is here to stay, the correct term for the fellow who runs the engine is "engineman." An "engineer" is someone who calculates cycloid curves so that the engine (we hope) will stay on the track.

no...wrong..the proper term for an engineer..is Locomotive Engineer.... not enginman as you say.... locomotive engineer as been around since day 1... Brotherhood of locomotive engineers...not brotherhood of enginman...... and what about say a ocean going ship...they have an engineer on them also..but he isnt called the ship engin man..he is the ships engineer.... and yes thier are also a whole crap load of other kind of engineers..like mechanical ..civil..electrical..strutual... ext ext ext... but the term enginman is incorrect
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

On the South Shore Line the formal term is "engineman." However we always referred to ourselves as "engineer." I believe this was true on the Pennsy as well.

Mitch

[Anonymous]

Hi. As an English reader and also a passenger train conductor I'm still unsure as to exactly what the difference is in the roles of conductor and brakeman are in the U.S. Are they two completely different jobs?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JNCarter

Hi. As an English reader and also a passenger train conductor I'm still unsure as to exactly what the difference is in the roles of conductor and brakeman are in the U.S. Are they two completely different jobs?

As applied in traditional railroading in the US ... The conductor is in charge of the entire train. Conductors come from the ranks of brakeman, and are required to pass a "Book of Rules" exam to be promoted. Years ago this was referred to as "Writing the Book," as the candidates litteraly wrte out the rules as their answers in the exam.

A brakeman works under the direction of the conductor. He lines switches, couples and uncouples cars, and serves as flagman. On passenger jobs he assists the conductor in collecting tickets, i.e. the conductor lifts the tickets, and his brakeman would fill out seat checks, help passengers with their luggage, and open doors. On some railroads, especially certain suburban, local or interurban lines, the brakeman would have his own cars or portions of the train to actually collect tickets. In the Chicago area, as example, the title of this assignment, and the title on the badge, would be "Collector."

By virtue of his being promoted the conductor would have gold trim and badge on his uniform. The brakeman, being subordinate, would have silver trim. Except for certain roads that had collectors. They would have gold trim as well. The Rock Island and South Shore Line had silver collector's trim. The CNW, North Shore Line, the IC and the Burlington had gold collector's trim. On te Milwauke, only Conductors collected transportation.

On freight jobs the conductor rode in the caboose and filled out the wheel report, checked the waybills, filled out the timeslip for himself and the other brakeman, told awful jokes and tall tales and otherwise conducted the proceedings.

Dining car stewards sometimes came from the ranks of conductors as they were the dining car conductors. Later these employees were hired by the dining car departments. On some roads the steward wore a regular conductor's uniform but with a startched white vest.

Mitch

A brakeman may very well be promoted, or "By the exam," but may not have the seniority to hold a conductor's job

[wabash1]

I did all of that to git where i iz now.... and i dont noze if i can spel *** ear.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

I did all of that to git where i iz now.... and i dont noze if i can spel *** ear.

And now I are one. As the saying goes.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark

On the South Shore Line the formal term is "engineman." However we always referred to ourselves as "engineer." I believe this was true on the Pennsy as well.

Mitch

In addition, they were also refered to as "Motormen" on some interurban lines, even after the cessation of passenger service.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark

On the South Shore Line the formal term is "engineman." However we always referred to ourselves as "engineer." I believe this was true on the Pennsy as well.

Mitch

In addition, they were also refered to as "Motormen" on some interurban lines, even after the cessation of passenger service.

But NOT on the South Shore. Just say that around there and see what happens.
They were motormen up until '38 when the main line unions took over representation of the operating men. At that time the BLF&E took over representing the motormen. they then were referred to as "Enginemen."
Mitch

[Anonymous]

I always liked the terms 'car knockers', 'hostlers', 'hoggers' and 'gandy dancers.'

[csxengineer98]

the term enginman is a genreal term that covers any and all opporating emplyees that deal with locomotives..meaning fireman hosslers as well as engineers..but the term engineer is always been engineer.... a locomotive engineer....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark

QUOTE: Originally posted by JNCarter

Hi. As an English reader and also a passenger train conductor I'm still unsure as to exactly what the difference is in the roles of conductor and brakeman are in the U.S. Are they two completely different jobs?

As applied in traditional railroading in the US ... The conductor is in charge of the entire train. Conductors come from the ranks of brakeman, and are required to pass a "Book of Rules" exam to be promoted. Years ago this was referred to as "Writing the Book," as the candidates litteraly wrte out the rules as their answers in the exam....


...Mitch

A brakeman may very well be promoted, or "By the exam," but may not have the seniority to hold a conductor's job

In Canada, a brakeman must have a Class B certificate of the CROR (Canadian Rail Operating Rules) and a conductor/engineer must hold a Class A certificate.

[Anonymous]

A couple yrs ago, I worked a local w/a six man crew! I was brkmn, and we had the condr & engr. In addition, we had s student engr, a student condr and a condr from another region taking qualifing trips. Three on the lead unit, three riding in the trailing unit. With two extra guys on the ground, it really speeded things up. Also the BNSF daytime yard job at Wichita,KS, until recently, operated w/a fireman. After the yards were combined in July 1998, the yard engr from the BN side came over to the SF side and marked up as a fireman.

[Anonymous]

A couple yrs ago, I was brkmn that for one day worked w/a six man crew! We had the regular three guys followed by a student engr, student/new hire condr trainee and a condr from another region taking qualifing trips. The extra help made things go quick & easy. Three of us riding on each eng. The extra help made things go by quick & easy. Also up until recent, the daytime BNSF yard job at Wichita,KS ran w/a fireman. This was a senority move by a BN engr when the Wichita BN yard was closed in 1999.