When did the railroads begin the formal processes of dispatching trains?
Are the current policies and practices determine solely by each railroad or are they governed by a government agency like the FRA?
Who if anyone licenses dispatchers?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
PJS1 When did the railroads begin the formal processes of dispatching trains?
I would suspect it would go back to a story I read years ago about a railroad telegrapher who couldn't find the trainmaster (or some other appropriate officer) so took it on himself to make changes in the timetable line-up.
Up until that point, only such an officer could authorize such actions.
I suppose one could argue that those officials did some dispatching. I would agree.
This was from the era of TT&TO operation, where crews basically dispatched themselves, based on the timetable. If they could get to Podunk before the Limited showed up, they were free to go.
PJS1 Are the current policies and practices determine solely by each railroad or are they governed by a government agency like the FRA?
If you're talking the who gets to go where and when part of dispatching, that's up to the railroads. About the only thing that the feds get involved with is Amtrak and the priorities thereof.
PJS1Who if anyone licenses dispatchers?
To the best of my knowledge, dispatchers, like engineers and conductors, are certified by their employing railroads, subject to federal regulations. Sorry - I don't know which section of 49CFR applies there. Balt can probably tell us (and straighten out anything I got wrong).
Dispatchers have to know their assigned territory and, AFAIK, have to personally make a trip over said territory periodically.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
In 1851, Charles Minot, a superintendent on the Erie, issued the first train order when the train he was riding was held at a certain station because an opposing train was late. He sent a telegram to the agent at the next station, instructing the engineer of the opposing train to wait there until the train Mr. Minot was riding arrived. The engineer of Mr. Minot's train refused to proceed on his superintent's insgtruction, and Mr. Minot ran the engine until the opposing train was met.
A treasury of Railroad Folklore, pp.82-84.
Johnny
What, if anything, has changed since I retired, I don't know.
When I was working, new dispatchers - those off the street as well as dispatchers with experience on other railroads would attend the Dispatcher Training Program that was held at the REDI Center in Atlanta. Along the way they would be tested upon what had previously been taught - my understanding was the 90% was the minimum acceptable grade in the tests to continue on to the next phases of the cirriculuum. The first seveal weeks were oriented towards teaching the Book of Rules and how to apply the rules to real world situations. Once that phase of training was successfully accomplished the next phases were on how to use CSX's Computer Aided Dispatching System - which is a relatively involved computer application that marries most all of the realities of real world railroading - lining switches and signals as well as handling Track Warrants on dark territory and MofW Track authorities - and what the proper procedures are when any aspect of CADS fails for whatever reason(s) - and various aspects of CADS will fail as CADS ties in the signal systems that were designed by myriad of Signal Engineers working for the multiplicity of companies that form CSX and that were designed and installed over a number of decades (with state of the art equipment for the period when the equipment was installed). In the background, CADS keeps track of every input that takes place in the system, all time stamped to the hundredth of a second, this background data can be accessed whenever it is required.
After the 'trainee dispatcher' successfully completes the REDI training they are sent to the Division that they are assigned to. Prior to nominally September 2017 each Division's Dispatching office was at the Division's field headquarters. Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville.
Upon being assigned to a Division, the non-contract Chief Dispatcher for the Division will assign the specific desks that the trainee dispatcher will have to learn and qualify on. The trainee will normally be given 2 to 4 weeks on each trick that the desk works - 1st 2nd and 3rd. The regular dispatchers that the trainee posts with will give a critque of their trainee to the non-contract Chief Dispatcher. At one time trainee dispatchers were required to qualify on 3 desks, more recently that has been reduced to 2 desks. Prior to actually working the desk on their own, the trainee will be examined on the nuances of the desk by the non-contract Chief Dispatcher. Road Review in the field may or may not be done before the trainee is marked up. There are videos of all territories on CSX as viewed from the various Inspection Trains that criss cross CSX's physical plant during the year. Field Road Review gives those that perform it a opportunity to meet face to face a number of the field employees they will be interacting with during the performance of their duties on the desk.
There is no Federal Dispatcher's certification or at least there wasn't when I retired.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD At one time trainee dispatchers were required to qualify on 3 desks, more recently that has been reduced to 2 desks.
If what happened to the former Selkirk territories is any indication, that would be because desks have been combined and altered so that what used to take three desks to cover, now uses just two. In fact, it's possible that what used to take four desks now uses just two...
The soon to be former St Lawrence Sub used to be under the "NE" desk. Then it was rolled into the ND desk. Now it's under the NB desk.
BaltACDRoad Review in the field may or may not be done before the trainee is marked up.
As Meredith Willsion sang in the Music Man, "You've GOT to KNOW the TERRITORY" How does a dispatcher learn the territory without seeing or experiencing it? A video doesn't really present what needs to be learned in my thinking. Multiple rides over the routes or other familiariztion would be desired by me.
tree68 BaltACD At one time trainee dispatchers were required to qualify on 3 desks, more recently that has been reduced to 2 desks. If what happened to the former Selkirk territories is any indication, that would be because desks have been combined and altered so that what used to take three desks to cover, now uses just two. In fact, it's possible that what used to take four desks now uses just two... The soon to be former St Lawrence Sub used to be under the "NE" desk. Then it was rolled into the ND desk. Now it's under the NB desk.
When the dispatchers were first centralized in Jacksonville in the late 80's & early 90's - for the most part experienced dispatchers held the jobs on all desks. As the first 'round of retirements' hit the office and it became necessary for 'trainees' to assume the duties of those that had departed - it was found the trainees could not manage - efficiently the territories as they existed when established in Jacksonville.
Union Switch & Signal salesmen (aka Union Switch & Swindle) sold the CADS system on the basis of how many 'more miles' of territory their software would permit dispatchers to control, because of the ease of lining switches and signals. The USS salesmen and CSX officials overlooked one critical element - human interaction is required in dealing with personnel in the field - both T&E and MofW personnel. No matter the efficiencies of computers - people hold conversations at the same rate as they always have - conversations between field personnel and the train dispatcher REQUIRE that both parties know and understand what each party is actually saying. When mandatory directives are issued, they are done in a specific manner, once the field person has copied the mandatory directive it must be repeated back to the dispatcher who checks the repeat on a word for word basis.
Thought is required in EVERY MOVE a Train Dispatcher makes - every switch operated, every signal lined, every Track Warrent issued, every MofW authority issued. The thought is not just about what the individual action is doing, but what situations the action may be setting up an hour, two hours or more in the overall operation of the territory. With the trains and the mix of traffic that dispatchers face on a continuing basis - every move can have a result on every other move that exists on the territory. Make the wrong move and in a couple of hours you can have the entire subdivision in gridlock.
In the case of the Selkirk Dispatching office, it was the considered opinion of Baltimore Division personnel that followed Selkirk territory to the Baltimore Division that the desks that had been set up by ConRail prior to the split had too little territory and traffic to warrant the number of desks that existed.
Are these directives, mandatory and/or otherwise, also in some written form as a double check?
Yes. There is always a hard copy involved.
As Balt noted, if a dispatcher gives orders over the radio (track warrants and the like) the receiver must copy and read back the information.
In some cases, crews receive printed copies (fax, teletype, etc), all of which have identifying numbers, at their crew base. These numbers will likely be referred to later as being in effect, or perhaps being cancelled.
On my railroad, we get bulletin orders for the short line, and a daily bulletin on our track. We are expected to have these in our possession.
Said bulletins contain special instructions (usually of a temporary nature) like slow orders, crossing issues, and anything else not covered in the timetable.
On the short line, a new issue not yet covered by a bulletin order (say, a crossing recently reported to be problem) will get a "line 13 - other instructions" on any Form D's issued. Again, this will all be dictated by the dispatcher and repeated by the crewmember taking the paper.
charlie hebdoAre these directives, mandatory and/or otherwise, also in some written form as a double check?
All trains on CSX operate on an electronic Train Sheet that is stored and manipulated in CADS. The Train Sheet contains a unique Identity for each train using the CSX Train Naming conventions. That convention in its simplest form is a first character alpha designator, three numeric characters of train designator and a 2 digit numeric date of origination. This form of Train Identification applies to all trains - Yard Jobs, Through Trains, Passenger Trains, Road Switchers, Local Freights, Mine Runs, Foreign Railroad movements - anything that has a locomotive and crew with the intent of operating on the Main Tracks. The train sheet gets filled with data from the Main Frame computer system with the Train Designation, Crew member names, On Duty time and location, the engine numbers assigned to the train, the loading statistics for the train - loads, empties, tonnage and train length (calculated from the UMLER listed lengths for each car in the trains consist, Special conditions that may apply to a train such as Key Train, High and/or Wide cars in consist, cars with individual speed restriction and about a half dozen other restricting conditions. Each train at its On Duty location will gets a set of Train Messages that contains the Train Identification including crew names and a unique number; upon receipt of the Train Messages a crew member will contact the Train Dispatcher and confirm receipt of the particular bulletin, the Train Dispatcher will then 'activate' that particular bulletin as being assigned to that particular train in CADS.
When a Track Inspector puts out a Slow Order on a particular track location, CADS will search the activated Train Bulletins that operate over that particular track location and identify to the Train Dispatcher all the trains that will need to be issued a Mandatory Directive of the slow order. Trains within 5 miles of the slow order location must be instructed to STOP their train to be able to copy the Mandatory Directive. Slow orders are the most frequently issued Mandatory Directives in CTC territory. In dark territory all Track Warrant Authorities are issued through Mandatory Directives.
All Mandatory Directives are written and uniquely identified in the CADS system, they are communicated to specific named individuals (Conductor or Engineer or MofW individual), trains are identified in the CSX Train Naming conventions as well as the engine number of the lead engine. MofW individuals are required to provide their employee ID number when getting track occupancy authorities; their name will then be entered on the authority.
T&E personnel, in getting their Train Documents which give them their train consist, a pictogram of the train indicating the loads and empties and their relative tonnages on a car for car basis. The Train Docs will also include Clearance Messages for any oversized cars, HAZMAT emergency handling instruction for every car of HAZMAT that the train contains. The Train Docs will also contain a printed blank form EC-1 which is used by the crews to copy the Mandatory Directives that get issued to the train. I suspect crew members may also have a EC-1 book with blank forms, that is normally issued to MofW personnel, as it is not unusual for a crew to be required to copy multiple Mandatory Directives during their trip or tour of duty. All EC-1's must be kept until the end of the trip or tour of duty.
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD Road Review in the field may or may not be done before the trainee is marked up. As Meredith Willsion sang in the Music Man, "You've GOT to KNOW the TERRITORY" How does a dispatcher learn the territory without seeing or experiencing it? A video doesn't really present what needs to be learned in my thinking. Multiple rides over the routes or other familiariztion would be desired by me.
BaltACD Road Review in the field may or may not be done before the trainee is marked up.
It is overrated.
An "expensive model collector"
BaltACD I suspect crew members may also have a EC-1 book with blank forms, that is normally issued to MofW personnel, as it is not unusual for a crew to be required to copy multiple Mandatory Directives during their trip or tour of duty.
Given the number of EC-1's I've heard dictated to crews, I'm pretty sure they have a book of them on hand.
I carry blank Form D's in my grip.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure more than a few Form D's (and likely EC-1's) have been copied on whatever paper was available.
n012944 Electroliner 1935 BaltACD Road Review in the field may or may not be done before the trainee is marked up. As Meredith Willsion sang in the Music Man, "You've GOT to KNOW the TERRITORY" How does a dispatcher learn the territory without seeing or experiencing it? A video doesn't really present what needs to be learned in my thinking. Multiple rides over the routes or other familiariztion would be desired by me. It is overrated.
Road Review is definately overrated by those that are not involved with Dispatching. Dispatchers contend with the layout of Control Points as displayed on the Model Board, they contend with the length of sidings, they contend with the length of trains and the holding points for train exceeding certain lengths, they contend with First Class Schedules, they contend with Priority trains, they contend with Mechanical issues on the trains on their territories etc. etc etc. The reality is very little Road Review actually is done by riding trains.
In most cases, Dispatchers are sent to ride with Roadmasters in their hi-rail vehicles - from a time standpoint that is most efficient, from learning what happens when a tonnage train attacks the territory, not so much. Setting up Road Review for a Dispatcher encompasses the better part of a full week, a full week of the Dispatcher being paid, in many cases airline travel and hotel expenses. Road Review in the 21st Century is not not cheap for the carrier.
The job of train dispatching is analagus to Air Traffic Control - do ATC's get 'road review' of their territory? Not to my knowledge.
The biggest benefit that I have seen from Dispatcher Road Review has been for both field personnel and dispatchers to put the faces of real people on both sides of the control equation. It is very easy for everyone dealing with the Train Dispatcher to develop a Us vs. Them mentality and pattern of actions and responses. That kind of mentality is easy to grow in the absense of face to face contact - when each are just disembodied voices it is easy to generate petty resentments.
A few years ago I had a trainee (who now holds a regular trick) ride with us. He got on with us at Fremont and was planning on riding to Missouri Valley via Omaha. Once there, he was going to ride a westbound the short way back to Fremont, then finish up the day with one of the local yard jobs there.
It took us 8 hours that day to go from Fremont to Missouri Valley. Our train was (for back then) a large ugly manifest. We were held at a couple of points in Omaha for hours because there was no route through town for us. Then a dynamiter put us into emergency when I set air to stop and drop him off at Mo Valley. He got the real view that day.
He asked us if we had any tips, and I shared a few. Telling him I understood that sometimes circumstances won't allow, but sometimes from the crew's perspective there are places where it's better to be on a specific track if we're going to be held. Due to curvature or other obstructions, sometimes when we stop back off crossings you can see the next signal only if you're on said specific track. Working PTC now kind of makes this irrelevant.
I also told him about one crossover that, when possible, try to avoid using for heavy trains. The best signal you can get to crossover is a restricting. It's coming off of a heavy grade and then once through the x-over the tracks make a sharp turn. Sight distance on the curve isn't the best. If there's a train there on the other track it's practically nonexistant.
Jeff
Keeping the train sheet is the FRA mandate. I don't know if it's still true, but the regulation requires a physical sheet, but most railroads just keep an electronic version as Balt described.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmanndKeeping the train sheet is the FRA mandate. I don't know if it's still true, but the regulation requires a physical sheet, but most railroads just keep an electronic version as Balt described.
Railroads with CADS have designed their systems in accordance with FRA regulations. I believe all Class 1's are using CADS on either a system wide (centralized) or localized (distributed) basis.
In addition to the items I have previously discribed as being on the electronic Train Sheet - all the OS reports from all the Control Points that the train operates through are also recorded as well as any Track Warrants that are issued and released; recrews, when necessary are also added to the train sheet - when the crews on a Train Sheet register their Off Duty times on their electronic Time Tickets the CADS gets the data and adds it to the Train Sheet.
There is more, more accurate data on today's electronic Train Sheets than it was even possible to enter on the paper Train Sheets of old. Watching 'olde time' Dispatcher, especially the Third Trick Dispatcher who had to manage two paper Train Sheets that were nominally 24 to 36 inches top to bottom and 6 to 8 to 10 or more feet wide. Train Sheets were started for movements originating 12:01 AM and later each day. Once a train was started on a Train Sheet its movement would be recorded on that Train Sheet until it arrived at the destination of its run. Any train or engine moving on the Main Track(s) had to have its movements recorded on the Train Sheet, that includes all 'through' trains, yard engines, helpers and trackage rights trains. Data entered on the train sheet was to be made in ink, without erasure, alteration or interlineation. A pocket knife was used as a 'eraser' to remove something written in error from the Train Sheet by 'shaving' the erroroneus data off the sheet. When OS's were for trains operating AGAINST the current of traffic, those OS's were written in Red ink, all other OS's were written in blue or black ink. Fountain pens were used, not ball point pens.
As to reading an order back after it is received and written down, the same practice was followed when orders were sent to operators via telegraph or telephone, thus assuring that the recipient KNEW the content of the orders. Also, if the recipient made a mistake when receiving an order, it could be quickly corrected.
BaltACD Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville.
Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville.
The 2 desks that remained in Calumet City moved to Jacksonville in September.
n012944 BaltACD Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville. The 2 desks that remained in Calumet City moved to Jacksonville in September.
Wasn't aware of that - I thought all the Class 1's serving the Chicago area were supposed to have their Chicago area Dispatchers in a common facility to facilitate interlocking operations of all the carriers. I guess PSR kills carrier cooperation too.
BaltACD n012944 BaltACD Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville. The 2 desks that remained in Calumet City moved to Jacksonville in September. Wasn't aware of that - I thought all the Class 1's serving the Chicago area were supposed to have their Chicago area Dispatchers in a common facility to facilitate interlocking operations of all the carriers. I guess PSR kills carrier cooperation too.
CSX left the RA and the RB desks in the Chicago area so they could be moved to a common location should one ever be worked out. In the time period from when the other 4 desks moved to Jax, the NS moved their one dispatcher located in Chicago to Atlanta, the UP moved their two to Omaha, and the CN stated they had no interest in having their dispatchers in a neutral site. Neither the BNSF nor the CP have had dispatchers located in the Chicago area for years. There was no reason to keep the two desks there anymore.
As an aside your last remark is so off the mark, it makes me question your time dispatching. One does not need to be in the same building, the same state, nor does one even need to have met someone to have cooperation. In all my years in Chicago, I was only in the BRC dispatching office once, however that does not prevent myself from working with the Belt dispatchers. I have never been to the CN's Homewood facility, even though it was less than 10 minutes from the Ops Center in Calumet City, CN's desk 10 dispatcher and myself work together just fine. There are 2 conference calls a day with all the of the railroads in Chicago, the Chicago ACD handles it for CSX, to hammer out any issues. So no, PSR did not "kill cooperation". It is the same as it ever was.
n012944 BaltACD n012944 BaltACD Subsequently all Dispatching, except for Chicago Terminal, is now done out of Jacksonville. The 2 desks that remained in Calumet City moved to Jacksonville in September. Wasn't aware of that - I thought all the Class 1's serving the Chicago area were supposed to have their Chicago area Dispatchers in a common facility to facilitate interlocking operations of all the carriers. I guess PSR kills carrier cooperation too. CSX left the RA and the RB desks in the Chicago area so they could be moved to a common location should one ever be worked out. In the time period from when the other 4 desks moved to Jax, the NS moved their one dispatcher located in Chicago to Atlanta, the UP moved their two to Omaha, and the CN stated they had no interest in having their dispatchers in a neutral site. Neither the BNSF nor the CP have had dispatchers located in the Chicago area for years. There was no reason to keep the two desks there anymore. As an aside your last remark is so off the mark, it makes me question your time dispatching. One does not need to be in the same building, the same state, nor does one even need to have met someone to have cooperation. In all my years in Chicago, I was only in the BRC dispatching office once, however that does not prevent myself from working with the Belt dispatchers. I have never been to the CN's Homewood facility, even though it was less than 10 minutes from the Ops Center in Calumet City, CN's desk 10 dispatcher and myself work together just fine. There are 2 conference calls a day with all the of the railroads in Chicago, the Chicago ACD handles it for CSX, to hammer out any issues. So no, PSR did not "kill cooperation". It is the same as it ever was.
I have been through CSX Dispatching, both centrailzed at Jacksonville and distributed with the various field dispatching office.
The supposed selling point of having Dispatching offices distributed across the network was to have Division control closer to the customer and thus more responsive to the customers needs. What I observed over 26 years encompassing both forms of operation was the Dispatching is in both cases a black hole, information goes in, trains operate and nothing happens outside of the Dispatching office.
In Jacksonville the Dufford Operations Center (Dispatching) is located on McDuff Ave. which is about 5 airline miles from the CSX Headquarters building on Water Street. In Baltimore the Dispatching Office was in the same building as the Divisonal offices, however, the card keys required of all Dispatchers would not grant Dispatchers entry into the Divisional offices. Non-contract (Division Officials) card keys granted access to all areas of the building, a minor gripe but indicative of some of the divide between Management and Labor, even the highest 'daily rated' employees in the company.
Divisional and System Conference calls are a real trip. Better know that the mute button on your communications device WORKS and you better know if you are muted of not if you open your mouth. I'm aware of several 'former' senior officials that were teminated with 'immediate effect' because they could not master the coordination of their mouth and the mute button. Don't tell the boss what 'you really think'.
In operations, as you are aware, there can be conflicts at Division boundries in how trains need to be manipulated at the boundry for numerous reasons - when all territories were in Jacksonville - those needed to make the decisions could resolve the conflict in face to face contact. When the territories were distributed, all such conflicts had to be argued and resolved over the telephone. As we all know - pepole act differently when involved with each other face to face as opposed to over the telephone. Body language, that is a integral part, of face to face communications is lacking, and as a result it can be much more adversarial between the parties in trying to resolve the conflict. Add in the frustrations to the party that initiates the the communication when the call either goes to 'voice mail' or the phone just ring and ring until the line times out.
Presuming appropriate communications exists - it is concievable that there doesn't need to even be a Dispatching Center - with adequate communications Dispatchers could even work from their own home. Supervision might be difficult, but think of the cost savings.
BaltACD Presuming appropriate communications exists - it is concievable that there doesn't need to even be a Dispatching Center - with adequate communications Dispatchers could even work from their own home. Supervision might be difficult, but think of the cost savings.
You could save even more money by eliminating the supervisors!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude BaltACD Presuming appropriate communications exists - it is concievable that there doesn't need to even be a Dispatching Center - with adequate communications Dispatchers could even work from their own home. Supervision might be difficult, but think of the cost savings. You could save even more money by eliminating the supervisors!
PSR probably would.
Hey Balt, when you first started out, was it pre-CSX? Was it SCL?
I was at GARR/AWP from, IIRC, spring of '73 to early '75. At that time, we operated under timetable and train order. No train orders could be transmitted by radio. Was that the case when you started out?
Lithonia OperatorHey Balt, when you first started out, was it pre-CSX? Was it SCL? I was at GARR/AWP from, IIRC, spring of '73 to early '75. At that time, we operated under timetable and train order. No train orders could be transmitted by radio. Was that the case when you started out?
When I started as a employee in 1965, it was as a Operator on B&O's St. Louis Division out of Washington, IN. Working most all Operator Jobs between 8th Street in Cincinnati and HN Cabin in E. St. Louis and including WS Tower at Watson, IN on the line to Louisville and Jeffersonville. Single Track, ABS signals and TT & TO. There were two Dispatcher Desks, Storrs Jct to Shops (Washington, IN) including the Louisville Branch) and Shops to E. St. Louis including the branch from Shawneetown to Beardstown, IL through Flora.
Subsequently I transfered to the B&O Pittsburgh Division and workd all the Operator jobs on the P&W Subdivision - FY Tower to Eidenau, which incluted Etna and Bakerstown. Double Track, Current of Traffic signalling (Rule 251-252). I didn't stay on the Pittsbugh Div. long enough to know how all the branch lines on the division were split up and which desks had their control.
Thence moved on to the Akron-Chicago Division with headquarters in Akron, working most of the B&O Operator positions between UN Tower at New Castle and Willard, including operating the drawbridge at Bridge 460 in Clevland. I became qualified as a Train Dispatcher on the Akron Chicago Division which had three desks. The Akron Main Line desk, New Castle to Willard (Rule 251-252 Double Track) and Lodi to Wooster (Dark Rule 241). The Chicago Div. desk, Willard to Pine Jct (R251-252 Willard to Sherwood, CTC Sherwood to Pine Jct). The Branch desk, Ohio Jct-Painesville, DeForest Jct-Newton Falls, Mineral City-Cleveland, Holloway-Warwick, Sterling-Lorain, Lester-Cleveland (Dark territory TT & TO)
Radio, what is the radio involved in train operations that you refer to? B&O had no radios. The only radios that were used were T&E employee owned CB radios that provided them end to end communications by a means other than the Caboose brake valve.
I know there were radios in use at Atlanta Yard, on the trains, and out on the road. In Atlanta, the yardmaster was in constant contact with the switching crews by radio, and the switchmen/conductors all communicated to the engineers via radio.
And I had a radio going at Lithonia; I would rarely speak on it, but I listened all the time. I think that the dispatcher couldn't talk to the road crews in many dead locations along the line. Maybe on most of the line. And I think maybe he could never hear them.
I vividly remember one time when there was a colossal screwup which was very nearly disastrous, at Lithonia. The train had to stop and straighten things out, which took quite a while. But first, the conductor had come running in and said to me, "Have you told the dispatcher?" I said no. (Actually I had just come back into the building myself, after running away, in fear that the train was going to derail and crash into the station.) He said, "Great. Good. And kid, NEVER report trouble that does not report itself. Never." I said okay.
But I had recently told the dispatcher, because he had asked, that I had heard #108 getting close.
I told the conductor this. He said "$#!t." Then he said he had a plan, and winked. "Stay tuned. ... And stay calm." He left in as big a hurry as he had arrived.
The train left Lithonia about 20 minutes late (he had been running on-time when he was approaching me).
After about ten minutes, the conductor called me on the radio. I could hear in the background that the train was going like hell. He said, "Kid, call the dispatcher and tell him we have stopped because we tripped a hotbox detector." I smiled. He said, "We will be here for a while, checking the train. We have a big train." I said okay. The train noise continued to roar along in the background.
That's how they accounted for the lost time!
The dispatcher rang me. I answered. He said, "Call me on the Bell phone. Right now." Meaning the (private) normal phone, not the open dispatcher's line where all stations could listen in. I complied.
He said, "Lithonia, what's up out there?" I said "Nothing." He asked if 108 was by on time. I said yeah. A long pause. He say, "Look Dean, are you telling me all is well out there?" I said yep. He said he had called me shortly after 108 should have cleared me, because I had not OSed the train, and I had not answered. (This was because I had run out of the building and away from the tracks!) I said I'd been in the restroom. Long pause. "So, you're telling me that everything is normal, nothing to report." I said "Yes, and by the way, 108 radioed; and they have stopped a few miles out of town, to check for a hotbox." He said, "Well ... okay then ... good. Uh. ... Okay ... I guess we're done here." I can't be sure, but I think he was grinning.
The next time that conductor came into my station, I thought he was going to hug me!! And trust me: in those days, guys on the GARR never hugged!
I will NEVER forget that night. First I thought I might get killed. Then I had the choice of risking getting fired (for lying) OR having five train service employees fired if I told the truth.
That was my most memorable experience on the railroad, except for the night the deputy assistant superintendent came out to Lithonia, from Atlanta, to fire me in person. (Which had nothing to do with that incident.) At that point, I was pretty much ready to leave, but still it stunned me. A story for another time.
BaltACD When I started as a employee in 1965, it was as a Operator on B&O's St. Louis Division out of Washington, IN.......... Subsequently I transfered to the B&O Pittsburgh Division..........
Subsequently I transfered to the B&O Pittsburgh Division..........
Did the railroad cover your relocation expenses?
Why did you choose dispatching as opposed to another occupation, e.g. engineer, conductor, etc.?
BaltACD In operations, as you are aware, there can be conflicts at Division boundries in how trains need to be manipulated at the boundry for numerous reasons - when all territories were in Jacksonville - those needed to make the decisions could resolve the conflict in face to face contact. When the territories were distributed, all such conflicts had to be argued and resolved over the telephone. As we all know - pepole act differently when involved with each other face to face as opposed to over the telephone. Body language, that is a integral part, of face to face communications is lacking, and as a result it can be much more adversarial between the parties in trying to resolve the conflict. Add in the frustrations to the party that initiates the the communication when the call either goes to 'voice mail' or the phone just ring and ring until the line times out.
With the exception of the IHB and CSX, no railroads shared dispatch facilities in the Chicago Area. The UP dispatchers where at Proviso, the BRC's are in Clearing, the CN's in Homewood, the CP's in the Twin Cities, the BN's in Fort Worth, Metra was down off of Canal St, and the NS were in mulitiple different locations depending on the division you were dealing with. Chicago was still managed through phone calls and faxes, all that has changed are those phone calls now have long distance charges applied to them. I get your thing is to blame everything on PSR these days, however PSR has not change how traffic is managed in the Chicago area between railroads.
n012944 BaltACD In operations, as you are aware, there can be conflicts at Division boundries in how trains need to be manipulated at the boundry for numerous reasons - when all territories were in Jacksonville - those needed to make the decisions could resolve the conflict in face to face contact. When the territories were distributed, all such conflicts had to be argued and resolved over the telephone. As we all know - pepole act differently when involved with each other face to face as opposed to over the telephone. Body language, that is a integral part, of face to face communications is lacking, and as a result it can be much more adversarial between the parties in trying to resolve the conflict. Add in the frustrations to the party that initiates the the communication when the call either goes to 'voice mail' or the phone just ring and ring until the line times out. With the exception of the IHB and CSX, no railroads shared dispatch facilities in the Chicago Area. The UP dispatchers where at Proviso, the BRC's are in Clearing, the CN's in Homewood, the CP's in the Twin Cities, the BN's in Fort Worth, Metra was down off of Canal St, and the NS were in mulitiple different locations depending on the division you were dealing with. Chicago was still managed through phone calls and faxes, all that has changed are those phone calls now have long distance charges applied to them. I get your thing is to blame everything on PSR these days, however PSR has not change how traffic is managed in the Chicago area between railroads.
In the early 90's when CSX first thought about bringing the Chicago Dispatchers to Jacksonville - a action that only died the day before its effective date - with many of the Chicago Dispatchers having sold their Chicago residences and contracted for property in Jacksonville - the 'announced reason' for stopping the relocation was that a combined dispatching center was going to be established in Chicago with ALL the Chicago area carriers participating.
That is never came to pass is just another failed plan - of which there are many, both inside and outside the railroad industry. Many plans are designed, acted upon and modified or cancelled before completion - this plan is just one of many that didn't make it to completion.
that story was in recent NRHS newsletter from some chapter. Our local editor emails me copies of other ones we get. Minot needed to get the job done so he did it.
Deggesty In 1851, Charles Minot, a superintendent on the Erie, issued the first train order when the train he was riding was held at a certain station because an opposing train was late. He sent a telegram to the agent at the next station, instructing the engineer of the opposing train to wait there until the train Mr. Minot was riding arrived. The engineer of Mr. Minot's train refused to proceed on his superintent's insgtruction, and Mr. Minot ran the engine until the opposing train was met. A treasury of Railroad Folklore, pp.82-84.
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