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News Wire: Coal miners still protesting in Kentucky; reject proposed settlement for back pay

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Posted by Brian Schmidt on Monday, August 19, 2019 12:44 PM

CUMBERLAND, Ky. — The protest by a group of coal miners who are blocking a CSX Transportation branch line in eastern Kentucky over unpaid wages is in its third week and, based upon recent developments, the protest looks to continue on. The pro...

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/08/16-coal-miners-still-protesting-in-kentucky-reject-proposed-settlement-for-back-pay

Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:54 PM

Brian Schmidt
a group of coal miners who are blocking a CSX Transportation branch line in eastern Kentucky over unpaid wages is in its third week

Seems kinda silly, the entity that actually owes the men money doesn't exist anymore, and yet the strikers refuse $800 settlement offer vs $4000 that no one (in existence) owes them? I guess a canary in a coal mine in the hand isn't worth two in the bush?

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Posted by Juniata Man on Thursday, August 22, 2019 1:41 PM

Given that the unpaid miners blocking the train are the same people who mined the coal and loaded the train; I’d say their beef is legitimate regardless who owns the mine now.  

The bankruptcy laws may allow crap like this to happen but; that doesn’t make it right.

Hell; if I lived closer I’d be inclined to join these guys on the line.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, August 22, 2019 2:01 PM

What's the coal worth? Move it out to tidewater or utility and give the sale proceeds to the Miners. They mined it. Transportation should be shoulderd by the new Company as part of a strike settlement. 

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, August 22, 2019 3:14 PM

Convicted One
Seems kinda silly, the entity that actually owes the men money doesn't exist anymore, and yet the strikers refuse $800 settlement offer vs $4000 that no one (in existence) owes them?

   The way I see it the purchasing company bought the liabilities as well as the assets of Blackjewel.   I realize, though, that the law doesn't think the way I do, especially regarding finance.

   I wonder how the Blackjewel executives made out.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:40 PM

Paul of Covington
   I wonder how the Blackjewel executives made out.

Undoubtedly laughing all the way to the bank with their deposits.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:43 PM

I wonder how many execs with the "bankrupt" Blackjewel now work at Kopper? 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:43 PM

Duplicate post

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:01 PM

Paul of Covington
I wonder how the Blackjewel executives made out.

I really wonder that too. For pretty much the same reasons I suspect that you do.

To all who responded: I don't believe that I ever said that the miners did not have  a legitimate grievance...I even sympathize with their plight.....

But personally  I really believe that they would be money ahead to accept the token settlement and get back to work.

The coal and (edit) equipment they are holding hostage does not belong to them, nor to anyone who owes them a dime. They appear to be tresspassing on railroad property assuming the caption under the photo is accurate describing the area where  the strikers are camped as a "CSX branch" And the bankruptcy laws are written the way they are to encourage people to take risk. Sometimes risk hurts.

Perhaps the new operator needs to negotiate in good faith and offer them 50 cents on the dollar, half now and half as a year end bonus? They really don't HAVE to offer anything...so the strikers resolve could come back to bite them. 

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:32 PM

I read that they let the locomotive leave the property, but it left "light".  They are just holding the train of coal hostage (reportedly a value of about $1million in coal).

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:50 PM

Semper Vaporo
I read that they let the locomotive leave the property, but it left "light".  They are just holding the train of coal hostage (reportedly a value of about $1million in coal).

I don't know the present price of coal.  When I was dealing with my operation creating 'Cargo Statements' for  coal being dumped on vessels at the Port of Baltimore and the late 70's and early 80's - when the freight rate was in the neighborhood of $10/ton - The saying at the time was it cost more to transport coal to destination than the cost of the coal itself.  

The Cargo Statement for railroad freight charges for 50-60K tons were approximately $1M.  I have no idea what the ocean charges for the cargo would be.  At that point in time most vessels after the loaded at Baltimore would then sail down the Chesapeake Bay and get another 60-90K tons loaded on the vessel before transiting the big pond.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:05 PM

BaltACD
Semper Vaporo
I read that they let the locomotive leave the property, but it left "light".  They are just holding the train of coal hostage (reportedly a value of about $1million in coal).

I don't know the present price of coal.  When I was dealing with my operation creating 'Cargo Statements' for  coal being dumped on vessels at the Port of Baltimore and the late 70's and early 80's - when the freight rate was in the neighborhood of $10/ton - The saying at the time was it cost more to transport coal to destination than the cost of the coal itself.  

The Cargo Statement for railroad freight charges for 50-60K tons were approximately $1M.  I have no idea what the ocean charges for the cargo would be.  At that point in time most vessels after the loaded at Baltimore would then sail down the Chesapeake Bay and get another 60-90K tons loaded on the vessel before transiting the big pond.

The price of coal, like any commodity, varies depending on time and location, and can change dramatically even over short periods of time:

https://www.ft.com/content/c4473e46-c294-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

The grade of coal will also affect its price, for example at its peak point 6-8 years ago high-grade western Canadian metallurgical coal was selling for over $300/ton, before falling to less than half that.  That price drop led to multiple mines in Alberta and British Columbia closing for several years, most have since reopened as coal prices recovered. 

Poor-quality coal like the stuff from the Powder River Basin will sell for only a small fraction of the met price, but the extremely low costs of strip-mining in Wyoming still allow it to be sold at a profit. 

Appallachian coal tends to be higher-quality, but is also more expensive to mine.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:08 PM

Semper Vaporo
I read that they let the locomotive leave the property,

I must have missed that,.... thanks

Where the article states that the miners stood in the way of the train attempting to leave.....and a few sentences later states that CSX had made no further attempts to move....it looked to me like the loco must still be attached?

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:25 PM

Do you expect that the railroad will charge demurrage for the marooned cars?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:27 PM

Depends on if they are railroad-owned or customer-owned/leased.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:37 PM

Yes, the price of coal can vary throughout the year. My college, in Bristol, Tennessee, bought coal in the summer, and bought enough to carry the heating system into the next summe and morer. The corners of the coal bins still had enough coal in them to carry the systems into the fall. I am sure the miners were glad there was a market for the heating coal throughout the year. I am not certain, but I have the impression that there is now a central plant on campus--which burns gas. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:41 PM

SD70Dude
Depends on if they are railroad-owned or customer-owned/leased.

Looks like railroad owned to me

http://trn.trains.com/~/media/images/news-wire/2019/08-august/minersstriketwo.jpg?mw=1000&mh=800

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Posted by Juniata Man on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:53 PM

I doubt there will be demurrage. This is a labor action which almost always falls under force majeure.

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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:56 PM

BaltACD
The Cargo Statement for railroad freight charges for 50-60K tons were approximately $1M. 

Back in the mid-eighties, the price of coal deliveries to Pleasant Prairie from the Powder River basin was one penny per ton per mile. Doesn't sound like much, but $0.01 times 17K tons (per 130-car train) times 1050 miles, amounted to around $178,000 per train; and that was just the delivery charge--no idea what the coal itself cost.

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:06 PM

[quote user="BaltACD"]  I don't know the present price of coal.  [/quote]

According to the Energy Information Administration, the price of a short ton of Central Appalachia 12,500 Btu coal on August 16th was $62.05.  Northern Appalachia 13,000 Btu, was $49.80. Illinois Basin 11,800 Btu was $39.10.  Powder River Basin 8,800 Btu was $12.05, and Uinta Basin 11,700 Btu was $34.85. 
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:11 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
BaltACD
Semper Vaporo
I read that they let the locomotive leave the property, but it left "light".  They are just holding the train of coal hostage (reportedly a value of about $1million in coal).

I don't know the present price of coal.  When I was dealing with my operation creating 'Cargo Statements' for  coal being dumped on vessels at the Port of Baltimore and the late 70's and early 80's - when the freight rate was in the neighborhood of $10/ton - The saying at the time was it cost more to transport coal to destination than the cost of the coal itself.  

The Cargo Statement for railroad freight charges for 50-60K tons were approximately $1M.  I have no idea what the ocean charges for the cargo would be.  At that point in time most vessels after the loaded at Baltimore would then sail down the Chesapeake Bay and get another 60-90K tons loaded on the vessel before transiting the big pond.

 

 

The price of coal, like any commodity, varies depending on time and location, and can change dramatically even over short periods of time:

https://www.ft.com/content/c4473e46-c294-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

The grade of coal will also affect its price, for example at its peak point 6-8 years ago high-grade western Canadian metallurgical coal was selling for over $300/ton, before falling to less than half that.  That price drop led to multiple mines in Alberta and British Columbia closing for several years, most have since reopened as coal prices recovered. 

Poor-quality coal like the stuff from the Powder River Basin will sell for only a small fraction of the met price, but the extremely low costs of strip-mining in Wyoming still allow it to be sold at a profit. 

Appallachian coal tends to be higher-quality, but is also more expensive to mine.

 

PRB coal has lower thermal value BTUs,  but also much lower sulphur content than Appalachian coal. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 23, 2019 7:06 AM

This whole affair reminds me of the Wisconsin Steel shutdown around 1979.  International Harvester sold the steel mill to a firm called Envirodyne a few years earlier after McLouth Steel made a bid on the mill and then backed out.  Needless to say, Envirodyne was in over its head and declared bankruptcy two or three years later and shut down the mill.  A small group of workers continued to work at the coke battery, keeping it hot in order to preserve the hope that a new owner would re-open the mill.  They were essentially working for free since they had no real claim against Envirodyne.  At any rate, the coke battery was shut down and the steel mill was demolished.  I don't think that those workers ever received anything.

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, August 26, 2019 4:31 PM

Good for the coal miners. The coal on that train is destined to be delivered... someone will get billed and someone will get the revenue. And the party who gets the revenue has a moral obligation to ensure that the people who mined it (putting their lives at risk in the process) are paid. Surely CSX is expecting to get paid to haul it.. Coal miners don't make much, and many go into their mid years with black lung and worse.. a plague on the houses of those who would try to short change them now. 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, August 26, 2019 10:03 PM

I dunno. Yes, the coal miners got the shaft from someone, but it wasn't from CSX. How about CSX perking up and saying "Say folks, we can sit down and talk about this issue, or we can just walk away and promise you that we will never, ever pull another carload of coal away from this mine."

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 8:35 AM

They're not striking CSX.. they're blockading the coal from being shipped to market.. its the only leverage they have over their former employer. CSX is caught in the middle, but owning the rail access gives them a bargaining chip the miners don't have.. i.e. if the coal was being flown to market the miners would be blockading the airport. Miners aren't after CSX.. 

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