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How to derail a train or stupid railroading

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 12, 2019 6:05 PM

rdamon
Thirty-three train cars derailed yesterday morning roughly 30 miles from the Nevada-Utah border near the small town of Caliente

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/brand-new-jeep-gladiators-and-chevy-silverados-destroyed-after-train-derails-in-nevada/ar-AAEbqlI?ocid=spartanntp

 

 

The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment.

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 12, 2019 6:45 PM

BaltACD
 

 

The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment.

 

 

That is an accordion type derailment.

 

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Posted by timz on Friday, July 12, 2019 6:56 PM

New vehicles -- so the UP train must have been westward? Which means downgrade.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 12, 2019 6:59 PM

Euclid
 
BaltACD 

The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment. 

That is an accordion type derailment.

Accordian is not a type of derailment - it is a result of a derailment.

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 12, 2019 7:05 PM

Yeah I knew you were going to say that.  But is that accordion result not a type?

Is an accordion the same as a jacknife?  It seems to me that a jacknife is the opposite of a stringline. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 12, 2019 7:25 PM

Neither accordian or jacknife are causes of derailments - they are results of a derailment and are caused by the need to disapate the remining kenitic energy that is contined in the still moving portion of the train after the originally derailed car begins moving slower than all the cars that are following it.  

If train A-Z has 26 cars.  Car A derails on comes to a stop in very short order - the kinetic energy in cars B-Z has to be disapated - with car A derailed it will not remain in perfect alignment with cars B-Z - the angular difference between A & B will define how the accordian will affect the movement of cars B-Z as the disapate their retained kenitic energy from the moment of derailment.

We have all seen this before, but it indicates kinetic energy needing to be dispated in a derailment better than most - 

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 12, 2019 8:08 PM

BaltACD

Neither accordian or jacknife are causes of derailments - they are results of a derailment and are caused by the need to disapate the remining kenitic energy that is contined in the still moving portion of the train after the originally derailed car begins moving slower than all the cars that are following it.  

If train A-Z has 26 cars.  Car A derails on comes to a stop in very short order - the kinetic energy in cars B-Z has to be disapated - with car A derailed it will not remain in perfect alignment with cars B-Z - the angular difference between A & B will define how the accordian will affect the movement of cars B-Z as the disapate their retained kenitic energy from the moment of derailment.

We have all seen this before, but it indicates kinetic energy needing to be dispated in a derailment better than most

 

Yes, I understand those points very well.  Actually, though, I would say that stringlining is also the result of a derailment and not the cause, just as jacknifing is the result not the cause.  The cause of stringlining is too much transverse force produced by pulling cars too hard through a curve.  When the limit to this force is reached, a wheel climbs the rail, and only that excessive transverse force is the cause of the derailment.  Everything from that first wheel climbing the rail to the point where the action stops is the result of the derailment.  So a stringling is the result of too much transverse force by pulling too hard through a curve. Only the excess transverse force is the cause. 

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Posted by rdamon on Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:25 AM

BaltACD

 The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment.

 

 
Agree,  This is just a recent event that I did not think warrented a new thread.
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, July 13, 2019 9:13 AM

rdamon
 
BaltACD

 The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment. 

Agree,  This is just a recent event that I did not think warrented a new thread.

I agree however, Amtrak's excuse of 'unscheduled trackwork' is unique.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, July 13, 2019 9:35 AM

BaltACD
 
rdamon
 
BaltACD

 The available pictures don't show that this was a 'stringline' type derailment. 

Agree,  This is just a recent event that I did not think warrented a new thread.

 

I agree however, Amtrak's excuse of 'unscheduled trackwork' is unique.

 

Due to an unscheduled derailment no doubt. Mischief

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 13, 2019 9:42 AM

Murphy Siding
Due to an unscheduled derailment no doubt.

You mean to imply scheduled derailments and precision scheduled derailroading have become a 'thing' now?  Hmmmm... Euclid and I have to ponder this.

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, July 13, 2019 9:53 AM

Scheduled derailmets? I will have to think about that one also.  Must be part of EHH's PSR philosp[hy.

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Posted by zardoz on Saturday, July 13, 2019 10:33 AM

oltmannd
They guys who are pretty astute about budgets, rules and safety aren't always the best at physics..

That is why they work with budgets, rules, and other related chores (aka-administration).

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, July 13, 2019 12:42 PM

Overmod

 

 
Murphy Siding
Due to an unscheduled derailment no doubt.

 

You mean to imply scheduled derailments and precision scheduled derailroading have become a 'thing' now?  Hmmmm... Euclid and I have to ponder this.

 

Wouldn't the next logical step in PSR be to schedule the derailments in the off-peak hours? I mean, it looks good on paper, so it's gotta work.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:14 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
Overmod

 

 
Murphy Siding
Due to an unscheduled derailment no doubt.

 

You mean to imply scheduled derailments and precision scheduled derailroading have become a 'thing' now?  Hmmmm... Euclid and I have to ponder this.

 

 

 

Wouldn't the next logical step in PSR be to schedule the derailments in the off-peak hours? I mean, it looks good on paper, so it's gotta work.

 

 

Many advantages there.  If off-peak=night, then with quick cleanups they can pretend it never happened. 

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Posted by cx500 on Saturday, July 13, 2019 11:51 PM

charlie hebdo
Many advantages there. If off-peak=night, then with quick cleanups they can pretend it never happened.

The only thing is at night they might have to pay employees overtime or shift differential, thus costing more.  Public relations often seems rather low on the priority.  The possibility of saving a couple of thousand dollars by scheduling the derailment at the start of the normal working hours will be attractive!

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