Operations and Motive Power

[CNIowa]

I recently viewed a DVD on BNSF Powder River trains and they mentioned that all PR trains originate out of Alliance. That got me to thinking and to asking this question:

Do BNSF coal trains HAVE to go to Alliance? If, as an example, a train leaves the Centralia steam plant in Washington State, and is headed to the PR to get loaded up for a return trip to Centralia, then why go all the way to Alliance?

Similarly, a CSX train dedicated to a mine-power plant run, stopping at Russell KY. I don't see why the train would stop there if the crew is under its time and power is fueled.

Its the same thing with Grain. BNSF takes a hundred grain car shuttle train, loads it in say, North Dakota, and heads for Kalama WA. Other than Crew changes and a fuel stop, why would the train have to detour to a yard?

My only guess would be crews are assigned out of these yards and are driven to the trains via a van.. but it still doesn't warrant a trip to the yard for the train...

Can anyone explain what that process is?

Thanks

P.S.

Any place on the web have a list of crew change points

[BaltACD]

It has relatively little to do with crews but a great deal to to with mechanical inspections for cars involved in the moves.  Loading facilities CAN reject cars as being unsuitable for loading - the carriers strive to see that this doesn't happen and desire to have the empties rigerously inspected prior to the trip to the mines.  Once a train is put together and moving between origin and destination it is required by the FRA to get a mechanical inspection every 1000 miles (not exact miles but suitable carrier locations in the near 1000 mile distance).  This inspection includes brake shoe replacement for individual cars when necessary.

Inspection points can be changed consistent with traffic levels and the carriers desires to minimize manpower and yard facilities required to comply with necessary inspections.

Each carrier has their on crew supply points that are designed to protect the traffic requirements of the carrier.  Crew supply point locations can be changed by the carrier.

[jeffhergert]

This might be hard to believe, but the DVD might be wrong.  I would guess like UP, the BNSF coal trains originate for operating purposes at the mine.  Many may pass through Alliance, as it is a major staging area for the coal fields, but possibly not all trains.  Inspections can be done anywhere.  Trains in cycle service may not have a change in locomotives or cars for a few consectutive trips.  (That's barring changes due to mechanical failure or locomotive mechancial inspection schedules.)  As long as the equipment isn't drastically changed, those trains can go 1000 miles (or 1500 miles for extended haul trains) before needing another inspection.

So a train coming from the west may not run through Alliance.  I imagine the DVD stated what it did because so many of the coal trains, loaded and empty, do go through there.

Jeff

 

[VerMontanan]

The only trains which pass through Alliance are those where Alliance is on the route between the utility and mine and vice versa.  Train inspections are done at a variety of locations which can be changed based on capacity and need.  With regard to locomotives, trains routed through Alliance can also have power modifications done in Lincoln or Kansas City.  With regard to trains not routed through Alliance, the primary power modification points (as needed) are Guernsey, WY, Laurel, MT, and Glendive, MT.  Donkey Creek, WY is also a location where power modifications can occur, usually due to short-notice changes in the operation such as failures or diversions to different mine or utility when the train was already passed one of the other aforementioned modification sites.

[caldreamer]

I have a list of all of the BNSF coal trains.  They originate at various mines in Wyoming, Montana, North and Southe Dakota and go many different destiantions.  Most of these are no where near Alliance.

   Caldreamer

[zardoz]

jeffhergert

As long as the equipment isn't drastically changed, those trains can go 1000 miles (or 1500 miles for extended haul trains) before needing another inspection.

The Powder River coal trains that arrived at Pleasant Prairie would get their inspection at the power plant. Many times we would have to set out bad orders when making up the return trip of empties. Bill, WY to Pleasant Prairie via Hwy 20= 1006 miles (according to Google Maps).

Side note--Hwy 20 (Lake Street in Chicago) runs from Mannheim Road, which is the road that passes directly over yard East 5 in Proviso, and goes all the way to Lusk WY which is only about 90 highway miles from Bill).

[CNIowa]

I've waited for a bit to see what kind of responses I receive. I appreciate all of the responses. Whats interesting is that we all have our individual takes, our own angle, on the subject. Its why I came here to ask the question.

What I've gathered from all the information is that an old Grinstein Green SD70MAC attached to a coal train out of Antelope Mine coming into a power plant a thousand miles away could be attached for quite awhile... provided it doesn't break down.

I'm finding that my question comes with another question.... which I think I've already got an answer for for. I wondered aloud why BNSF and Union Pacific would invest in such big yards like Alliance and North Platte... and I thought most coal heads East of the Powder River. I could spend my Sunday reseraching that to prove to myself this is true, (especially when I too have volumes of info on train symbols) but a majority of the power in our country is used East of the Mississippi so that might suffice to answer that research.

I do think the DVD was deceiving... not intentionally. They should've said "a Majority"... and explained why.

I still think North Platte is a giant... but it was a giant before they discovered coal in the Powder River. Alliance I believe grew out of increased coal traffic east. I recall a years ago seeing construction for huge improvements to Alliance when coal traffic increased.

I like it when responses to my questions are sprinkled with answers from folks who actually sit in the Engineer/Conductors seat. Those I especially appreciate. Thank You to everyone. 

Bottom line. A locomotive could live for quite awhile on one coal/shuttle grain train, as long as it stays healthy. A visit to Alliance or North Platte may not be in its route until a periodic inspection or maintenance is due.

Anyone have anything else to add.. I'm all ears. I'll be a regular here.

[beaulieu]

CNIowa

I recently viewed a DVD on BNSF Powder River trains and they mentioned that all PR trains originate out of Alliance. That got me to thinking and to asking this question:

Do BNSF coal trains HAVE to go to Alliance? If, as an example, a train leaves the Centralia steam plant in Washington State, and is headed to the PR to get loaded up for a return trip to Centralia, then why go all the way to Alliance?

The video is wrong. BNSF has many locations where trains can be serviced the main ones where fuel and spare locomotives and cars are available are the following near the Powder River Basin;

Glendive, MT

Sheridan, WY

Gillette, WY

Alliance, NE

Guernsey, WY

Alliance and Glendive have full shops, the others just have servicing facilities with fuel, water, and sand. Normally all of the smaller facilities will have a few spare locomotives and cars on site.