Flintlock76Balt makes a good point, and maybe there's some things Racine can do that they're not doing
The best way would be for the trains to head north to St. Francis on the Milwaukee sub, run past the interlocking and head towards downtown, run around the train, and then head south to Oak Creek. Even if the move necessitated the need for an additional crew, it would be far cheaper than building new track.
Could someone explain the references to the Mayo Clinic?
Mayo Clinic was opposed to the DM&E proposed expansion of 1.5-mile-long coal trains through Rochester back in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Jim, you wouldn't even have to run around the train if you could make the hind-end DPU the controlling unit for those last few miles.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Lithonia Operator Could someone explain the references to the Mayo Clinic?
Non-related question: how close was the CNW station to the cliinic? I think of the two cars that had a door in the side opposite a bedroom door that Pullman built for overnight service from Chicago.
Johnny
DeggestyPossibly because such extension of train length could substantially delay an ambulance that is transporting a patient to the clinic?
I don't think many of the people at the Mayo Clinic are arriving on an emergency basis, or in a condition that poses danger from waiting at a crossing. They're not that sort of outfit...
I think it's more likely that they objected to the noise or general inconvenience of increased train traffic.
Who won? Mayo or the railroad?
Johnny, you are correct regarding the first responder concern. There was much discussion of first responder delays and the need for additional gradeseparations to address ambulance and fire concerns.
As to passenger stations, back in the day Rochester was served by the Chicago & Northwestern main line to Rapid City, SD. That line runs on an east-west alignment through Rochester and is now part of Canadian Pacific. Trains such as the Dakota 400 would travel at speeds up to 90 mph on the line. The C&NW station was just three small blocks north of the Mayo Clinic. Most of the patients arrived by rail prior to the growth of air travel and the Interstate Highway System. The C&NW station is no longer in existence.
The Chicago Great Western also served Rochester on a secondary main line that ran through Rochester on a roughly north-south alignment. The depot was about 4 small blocks east of the Mayo Clinic across the Zumbro River. The depot is still in existence and sits along a remnant of the former main that extends to south Rochester to serve a lumber supplier, a scrapyard, and a frozen foods producer. The depot is now a restaurant.
kgbw49The Chicago Great Western also served Rochester on a secondary main line that ran through Rochester on a roughly north-south alignment.
I'm astounded you did not mention the Bluebird when saying this.
(Incidentally, since one of the three cars of that train survives, in Nevada of all places, I would welcome a 'restoration' effort... the Bluebird is one of the great formative events in the history of streamliners in general, in fact more significant than anything Budd built up to the Pioneer Zephyr. It's in a parlous state, but I've seen steam locomotives far worse restored to operation.)
Yes, Overmod, your explanation seems better than mine. I have the impression that most who go to the Mayp Clinic go after it seems that no other facility has been able to give them the help they need.
DeggestyYes, Overmod, your explanation seems better than mine. I have the impression that most who go to the Mayp Clinic go after it seems that no other facility has been able to give them the help they need.
There is also a Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL. Same organization, different location.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD is right on the advertised again. And there is one more in Scottsdale. AZ.
All three campuses are linked with an amazing array of communications and imaging devices.
They work on the basis of group diagnosis. Doctors will consult with each other for verification of their diagnosis. They have seen just about everything and so through team doctoring they can usually get it right. One astounding statisic I read was that a large majority of patients referred to the Mayo Clinic come with a particular diagnosis but actually leave with a different diagnosis. It is an amazing, life-saving organization.
Lithonia Operator Who won? Mayo or the railroad?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
OvermodI think it's more likely that they objected to the noise or general inconvenience of increased train traffic.
As I recall, one of their specific objections was that vibration would affect sensitive instruments in use.
Murphy Siding, mostly financial issues caused the Powder River Basin extension to be nothing more than a dream for the DM&E
Wasn't there a little flim-flammery involved also? CP's purchase price had contingencies built in. They paid like $1.5 billion up front, but would be required to pay like another $1 billion when the powder river extension was eventually built. Which of course never happened, and likely never will now that CP has spun off the western end of the old D,M,&E.
Convicted One Murphy Siding , mostly financial issues caused the Powder River Basin extension to be nothing more than a dream for the DM&E Wasn't there a little flim-flammery involved also? CP's purchase price had contingencies built in. They paid like $1.5 billion up front, but would be required to pay like another $1 billion when the powder river extension was eventually built. Which of course never happened, and likely never will now that CP has spun off the western end of the old D,M,&E.
Murphy Siding , mostly financial issues caused the Powder River Basin extension to be nothing more than a dream for the DM&E
I don’t know about flim-flammery per se. I saw that more as a face-saving move by the DM&E folks so they wouldn’t actually have to admit defeat.
Murphy Siding I saw that more as a face-saving move by the DM&E folks so they wouldn’t actually have to admit defeat.
Never thought about it that way. You might be right.
Murphy Siding if the DM&E had been able to find financing and go forward, the end result might have paralleled the lifespan and eventual demise of the Milwaukee Road.
Perhaps they had some idea that coal was about to become an enviromental boogey-man in the next presidency?
CShaveRR Jim, you wouldn't even have to run around the train if you could make the hind-end DPU the controlling unit for those last few miles.
Convicted One Murphy Siding if the DM&E had been able to find financing and go forward, the end result might have paralleled the lifespan and eventual demise of the Milwaukee Road. Perhaps they had some idea that coal was about to become an enviromental boogey-man in the next presidency?
That sinking feeling you get when you put all your eggs in one basket and realize that a dinosaur is about to step on it sort of thing?
Regarding Carl and Zardoz's discussion. For some reason I can't quote Zardoz's last post, but it will allow me to quote other's postings.
That 3 mile walk is going to be more in the neighborhood of an hour in good weather. That's why we have vans, unless they are all busy doing something else.
For an engineer to throw his own switch, he first has to secure the engines and train before getting on the ground. You can't go very far from the power unless everything is secured. If it's a facing point close to the engine, maybe you would be OK. If a trailing point, definitely not. (I used to get my own switches, even operated the release box at an automatic interlocking that sometimes gets used multiple times when putting together large trains at one yard, often it wouldn't reclear. Now if that interlocking is red, the conductor or utility man has to come operate it. Adds about 30 to 40 minutes, but once engineers started getting written up for getting away from the power, no more getting off the power to do such duties.)
To change ends on a DP train you'll have to unlink and relink everything, which means getting on all locomotive consists. You could probably unlink and relink as you went, but you would need to get on all the consists everytime you changed ends.
The empties had been returning in two trains. Now they are starting to run them back west in larger quantities. One empty I met today had 200 cars. I don't know what happened to the other 69 or 70 cars. Maybe being changed out for maintenance or something. They have experimented with running empties back in large numbers before. I remember one where they got 3 knuckles on one train, then a fourth when putting it back together. IIRC, this was before DP was available.
Jeff
jeffhergert The empties had been returning in two trains. Now they are starting to run them back west in larger quantities. One empty I met today had 200 cars. I don't know what happened to the other 69 or 70 cars. Maybe being changed out for maintenance or something. They have experimented with running empties back in large numbers before. I remember one where they got 3 knuckles on one train, then a fourth when putting it back together. IIRC, this was before DP was available.
Just watched an empty westbound coal on the Rochelle webcam- ONE engine pulling 140 cars!
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
blhanelJust watched an empty westbound coal on the Rochelle webcam- ONE engine pulling 140 cars!
invest in air compressor stock?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I've told this story before...
Whilst watching ICG in Rantoul one night, I saw a rather dim headlight off to the north. It wasn't coming very fast.
When the train finally got to Rantoul (I was on the station platform), there were two locomotives. I don't recall if they were four or six axle - I lean toward four. But they were on their knees. It's a long upgrade into Rantoul southbound.
On a whim, I started counting cars. There were 196 empty coal hoppers.
ICG usually ran their coal trains at around 100 cars at the time, and the empties the same. This was clearly two trains worth of empties.
All I could figure was that they were short of power on the north end, so sent the two trains south as one, and vastly underpowered.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 blhanel Just watched an empty westbound coal on the Rochelle webcam- ONE engine pulling 140 cars! I've told this story before... Whilst watching ICG in Rantoul one night, I saw a rather dim headlight off to the north. It wasn't coming very fast. When the train finally got to Rantoul (I was on the station platform), there were two locomotives. I don't recall if they were four or six axle - I lean toward four. But they were on their knees. It's a long upgrade into Rantoul southbound. On a whim, I started counting cars. There were 196 empty coal hoppers. ICG usually ran their coal trains at around 100 cars at the time, and the empties the same. This was clearly two trains worth of empties. All I could figure was that they were short of power on the north end, so sent the two trains south as one, and vastly underpowered.
blhanel Just watched an empty westbound coal on the Rochelle webcam- ONE engine pulling 140 cars! I've told this story before...
I worked with the operations of Willard, OH in two eras over 30 years apart. They did the same things. 10 minutes before The Capitol Limited Eastbound(in B&O days) was scheduled to depart On Time - they JUST HAD TO RUN 200 Rattlers (B&LE double clasp braked empty hoppers) ahead of the Cap - 2 F7's and 200 emptys that might make 30 MPH down an elevator shaft. Later before the On Time departure of Amtrak's Three Rivers they JUST HAD TO RUN 200 empty hoppers behind a SD-40 and a Dash-8. Some things never change - the people change - the operational mentality doesn't.
One of the many things that amazed me back when I first started running, was how much drag empty hoppers create. With a train of 130 coal empties, weighing under 4K tons and two SD40-2's, one would think it would go right along; however, with a good tail-wind, you might hit 35mph--about the same as if the cars were loaded. It's when dealing with a grade that the tonnage then becomes relevant.
I would assume that the empty hoppers have more air drag than full ones as the load provides some "streamlining effect".
Erik_Mag I would assume that the empty hoppers have more air drag than full ones as the load provides some "streamlining effect".
For most of my career, trains still had a caboose; so for me, the easiest train to handle was an empty coal train--even easier than passenger.
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