CALGARY, Alberta — The Alberta government’s plan to open the province’s oil spigot by acquiring its own fleet of locomotives and tank cars raises more questions than it answers, Canadian Pacific CEO Keith Creel says. “I know ...
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/01/24-canadian-pacific-questions-alberta-oil-train-proposal
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
Yes, I'm sure its more complex than just buying a bunch of rail cars and locomotives. But help the lady out here.. she's not a transportation person.. all she wants is for someone to get her crude to market.. pipeline would be great.. rail would be a fine too apparently. CN.. CP let's get 'er done!
Ulrich Yes, I'm sure its more complex than just buying a bunch of rail cars and locomotives. But help the lady out here.. she's not a transportation person.. all she wants is for someone to get her crude to market.. pipeline would be great.. rail would be a fine too apparently. CN.. CP let's get 'er done!
Ms. Notley, on the other hand, is seeking to solve her'problem'; immediately, by coming up with what looks to be on first glance, as a 'solution'. On second look; maybe not, too fast?
It seems to be that the perspective, on both sides, is a glance down the tracks, to that destination of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Mr. Keith Creek is waiting for what might happen, politically, and legislatively; Ms. Rachel Notley, maybe, has a 'plate full' vexing political issues to be handled quickly(?) Collateral Damages, for her, in the future?
Have Train, Will Travel
Wire Notley Calgary
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Sounds like Creel is worried that he might actually have to provide service to customers he doesn't really want. Might make the Operating Ratio rise.
Jeff
jeffhergert Sounds like Creel is worried that he might actually have to provide service to customers he doesn't really want. Might make the Operating Ratio rise. Jeff
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Just for discussion, it sounds like an open-access proposal by the Province of Alberta.
With 80 locomotives and 7,000 cars, how many unit trains would be operating daily with that equipment? Are unit oil trains typically in 2 x 1 DPU? If so, would that be approximately 25 unit oil trains heading somewhere each day on either CP or CN?
Thanks for any thoughts!
kgbw49 Just for discussion, it sounds like an open-access proposal by the Province of Alberta. With 80 locomotives and 7,000 cars, how many unit trains would be operating daily with that equipment? Are unit oil trains typically in 2 x 1 DPU? If so, would that be approximately 25 unit oil trains heading somewhere each day on either CP or CN? Thanks for any thoughts!
Here is another thought for discussion.
With all the stored locomotives from PSR and all the stored coal sets from the downturn in PRB coal usage, and given the fact that most Alberta tar sands oil has to go to Louisiana for refining, why couldn’t CN propose something like this:
“Okay, Alberta and Mr. Prime Minister, we at CN will provide the locomotives and cars. For your $1 billion (or whatever it takes), you build CN a Canapux loading facility in Alberta and an unloading facility on a CN line in Louisiana, pay for construction of XX number of 15,000 foot sidings to add capacity on the CN main line from Alberta to Louisiana, and guarantee a 20-year supply of crude for Canapux in Alberta.”
Yes, I know it would not be that simple.
If they are that serious about it, why doesn't Alberta build a refinery?
Murphy Siding If they are that serious about it, why doesn't Alberta build a refinery?
You still have to ship the finished product someplace. Tankcars full of Marine Diesel and hoppers of Sulfur. Plus of course it will take the refinery 2 - 3 years to be built.
I think CPR is concerned about track capacity and crews.
beaulieu Murphy Siding If they are that serious about it, why doesn't Alberta build a refinery? You still have to ship the finished product someplace. Tankcars full of Marine Diesel and hoppers of Sulfur. Plus of course it will take the refinery 2 - 3 years to be built. I think CPR is concerned about track capacity and crews.
Alberta did build a new refinery, it opened last year:
https://nwrsturgeonrefinery.com
They are trying to get another bitumen upgrader built too:
https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/alberta-government-to-partially-backstop-new-2-billion-dollar-bitumen-upgrader
Personally I think that the Province's oil train proposal is just political posturing, as we are due for an election this year. It is widely expected that the current NDP government will lose the election, and the Conservative party will win a majority.
The new government will then most likely cancel the oil train plan.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Similarly, Creel is posturing too, trying to get a better long-term contract if these oil shipments actually happen.
If the Province is serious about this rail proposal they should start leasing tank cars (if any are available) and locomotives now (get some stored units from down south). Same goes for ordering new equipment, the sooner the better!
But I don't see any of that happening.
I am half surprised no one has offered a thought as to what this would look like, so I will.
7000 cars and 80 engines is 87.5 cars per engine. I suspect planned train size is about 180 cars per train with 1X1 DPU. At 143 tons per car, train weighs 25,745 tons which is about .35 HPPT which implies a very favorable rulig grade of about .3%. I am soft on car length but at 70" the train itself is 12,600 feet, so absolute minimum siding length is 13,000 feet where two oil trains will meet.
I figure 15 days round trip time so it takes 30 engines and 2700 cars to protect one train departure per day. 60 and 5400 for two trins per day 90 and 8100 for three, so it looks like about 2.5 trains loaded on any given day.
As to marketing, CP should point out that its railroad is not capable of meeting such trains and that siding extensioons, to say 15,000 feet, are required at intervals of half an hour travel time to allow the oil trains to meet without unreasonable delay. Maximum speed is probably 50 MPH so oil trains sidings must be placed on 25 mile spacing. Wthout knowing real route I can not acurately count, so say 100 extensions at $5 million each or $500 million Provincvial investment in the railroads to support the provinces demand. A more reasonable plan would be shorter trains on roughly the existing infrastructure. The key point is that the province pays UP FRONT to make the physical railroad capable of doing what their consultants think the oil traffic requires.
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