Hi all!
My name is Alice and I am a writer working on a story that involves a train heist. Although the story is set in a fantasy world, there are some technilogical acheivements present including old fashioned steam trains. I've been trying to research older steam trains, but I don't really know where to start, so I figured I would find a place where I could ask people who know a fair amount about trains.
My most immediate question is about how many wagons an old fashioned steam train could reasonably be expected to pull, as well as what those wagons might look like on the inside.
If anybody would be willing to help me either in this thread or in direct messages, I would greatly appreciate that. I would also be happy with just some help finding a source to start learning these sorts of basic things about older trains.
Thanks so much for all of your time and help!
-Alice Pow
Wagons implies British practice. This is an American forum so fewer members will be familiar with British practice than with American.
Part of your answer will depend on the time frame you have in mind since railroad technology was not static. For example are you thinking link and pin or knuckle couplers (American)? British totally different. Hand brakes, or Air brakes (American) or Vacuum brakes (British and European)?
Number of wagons (British) or cars (American) depends on time frame, and the grades your mythical train will encounter. The tonnage rating depends on tractive effort of your locomotive and the steepest ascending grade on the route. Number of cars for given tonnage rating depends on their gross weight, which in America has increased from 20 tons to 143 tons from 1865 to today.
Pick a date. Pick US or British. Those factors will set your technology. Then you can do a credible description.
We would really need some additional information to answer your question with any accuracy.
What time frame? Earlier locomotives (early to mid-1800's) had trouble pulling more than 3 or 4 coaches, in the latter years of steam, the big locomotives could haul a dozen or more easily.
The coaches in the very early years were nothing more than western looking stagecoaches on flanged wheels... no getting up and wandering from coach to coach. Later years they are more like modern airliners in seating arrangements and you can wander from car to car with ease. Everything in-between existed in the intervening years.
I suppose that if you are in a fantasy world, you can make the interiors anything you like. Some TV shows tended to have coaches that were lots bigger on the inside than on the outside ("Wild, Wild West"). If you want more realistic then go to the library and look for some "coffee table books" on trains, lots of photos of trains and cars. Do some web searches for tourist trains. Places like "Friends of the 261" have many coaches and I think many photos of their interiors should be available on-line. But, again, what era are you seeking?
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
First of all, Alice Pow(apow8), Welcome to this Forum!
You've already gotten some pretty sound advice, from some of the other posters.
PNWRMNM said:
"...Part of your answer will depend on the time frame you have in mind since railroad technology was not static. For example are you thinking link and pin or knuckle couplers (American)? British totally different. Hand brakes, or Air brakes (American) or Vacuum brakes (British and European)?.."
Semper Vaporo said:
"...What time frame? Earlier locomotives (early to mid-1800's) had trouble pulling more than 3 or 4 coaches, in the latter years of steam, the big locomotives could haul a dozen or more easily. {weight pulled will be a combination of time period technology within your story}
The coaches in the very early years were nothing more than western looking stagecoaches on flanged wheels... no getting up and wandering from coach to coach. Later years they are more like modern airliners in seating arrangements and you can wander from car to car with ease. Everything in-between existed in the intervening years..."
As you may have noticed, there are a number of 'comment sections' within this Forum. There are any number of Posters who have specific interest areas, and those interests are as broad as their subject matter can be.
You can ask any question, answers might take a couple of days to get responded to(?).
-I'm also U.S. based. I just thought wagon was a more proper term than car. This further illustrates how little I know. Haha.
-I'm defintely thinking something early. I'm imagining a world in the early days of industriallization, so I think one of those 5-6 car steam trains would be perfect. I might play around with the interior, but I'd also like to know what they really looked like, because I'd prefer to take fewer liberties with it if possible. If the train lacks interiors suitable for walking around, that's only one more thing for my characters to have to problem solve around.
Thanks again for taking time to help me!
-I'm defintely thinking something early. I'm imagining a world in the early days of industriallization, so I think one of those 5-6 car steam trains would be perfect. I might play around with the interior, but I'd also like to know what they really looked like, because I'd prefer to take fewer liberties with it if possible.
-Additionally, I should note that the train is primarily transporting lumber, in addition to a valuable object which is concealed somewhere (potentially under lumber or something?).
Thanks again for taking the time to help me out!
Hello Alice, and as Sam says "Welcome Aboard!"
For a quick n' easy tutorial on the history of steam locomotion let me recommend the following books...
"The Steam Locomotive, A Century Of North American Classics" by Jim Boyd. It's a very enjoyable walk though of the history of American steam, well illustrated and easy to understand. Published by MetroBooks in 2002.
Another is "The World Encyclopedia of Locomotives" by Colin Garrett. Colin's English, so he casts his net a bit wider than Jim Boyd does. Colin's book covers steam development in Europe in addition to the US, and it's a fascinating and entertaining read and lavishly illustrated like all of Colin's books. Published by Hermes House in Britain in 2002.
I purchased both books at Barnes and Noble. I don't know of the availability of the two at B&N now, but you might be able to find them with an Amazon search.
Both books will pretty much tell you everything you want to know about the subject without majoring in it, if you know what I mean.
For a look at passenger car interiors over the years try and find a copy of Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg's "The Trains We Rode." It's been reprinted a number of times so it may not be too hard to find. Again, lavishly illustrated and with tremendous amount of passenger car interior photos from the 19th through the 20th centurys.
And best of luck in your endevours!
Alice,Early steam engines were like Stevenson's Rocket of 1829:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephenson%27s_Rocket
It was used as part of the Rainhill Trials that year, a contest used to pick the best motive power for the new railway in England:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainhill_TrialsShortly thereafter, the locomotive "John Bull" was built in 1831 and shipped to the US. American track wasn't built to the very high (and very expensive) standards that British railways had, so a pilot truck was added to help guide the engine into curves. Later, a "cow catcher" was added to deflect debris away from the loco, as well as a headlight and cab for the crew:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bull_(locomotive)
One thing to know about steam engines is what they were called and how they were described. Steam engines are classified using the Whyte notation, based on the number of wheels:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whyte_notation
Anyways, as weights of equipment and speed increased, new wheel arrangements were created. The "4-4-0" was the most common in the 1800's. This meant they had 4 pilot wheels followed by 4 driving wheels and no trailing wheels. They were flexible on track and they could handle freight or passenger trains. They were so widespread in this country they were called "Americans". The two driving axles were seperated to make room for the ash pan under the boiler.
For more freight power, the rear pilot wheel was dropped in favor of another driving wheel, making a "2-6-0". These were called "Moguls". Older Moguls had the same gap between the rear drivers as a 4-4-0 for the ash pan.
More power for freight trains resulted in the "2-8-0", called a "Consolidation". The older ones were very slow but heavy hauling locos.
More power/speed for passenger trains resulted in the "4-6-0", called "Ten Wheelers".
For switching duties inside freight yards, cities, and industrial areas, the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 types were common. These were low-speed machines using for moving cars around yards, mostly.
The big change in loco design was the development of the rear truck, or trailing truck, in the late 1800's. This meant that the firebox wasn't limited to the inside dimensions of the driving wheels. Instead, the firebox could be made as wide as the clearance gauge and be supported by it's own wheeled truck. This dramatically increased heating surface area and increased power and efficiency.
The 4-4-2 "Atlantic" type was the improved 4-4-0, and was first used succesfully in 1894 for the Atlantic City line on the Philadelphia & Reading RR. Many other trailing truck locos followed like the 4-6-2, 2-8-2, etc., but mostly in the 1900's.
Technology-wise, other big developments were in couplers and brakes. Originally, cars were "chained" together. Called "Link & Pin", a long link of iron was used between cars. Each car would have a iron pocket with a hole in it. An iron pin would be dropped through the holes and hold the link in place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_coupling
Link & Pins were incredibly dangerous for railway workers. Losing fingers were common, and brakemen would be hired based on their experience using the number of fingers they had left.
For passenger cars, the "Miller Hook" was somewhat common instead of the Link & Pin after 1866: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Platform
Fortunately, a new automatic coupler was invented by Eli Janney. It was mandated for all railway equipment in 1893 by Congress, with a deadline of 1900. It reduced railway coupling accidents from 11,000 in 1892 to 2,000 by 1902. The Janney coupler's modern variations are still in use today.
Air brakes were also a late 1800's development. Before, the engines had brakes and each car had a hand brake accessible from the roof. Each car would have roofwalks that allowed brakemen to jump from car to car and apply the hand brakes (using a club for leverage, usually) when the engineer whistled for brakes. Trains were short and relatively light back then, and a crew of 5 or so brakemen could handle most trains. Air brakes changed everything, and allowed much longer and heavier trains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Air_Brake_Company
George Westinghouse started "WABCO" in 1869 with the straight air brake. A loco would pump air into the train to put the brakes on using flexible rubber hoses that connected each car to the loco. The problem with that is if the train becomes uncoupled the train now has no brakes.
In 1872, he invented the automatic brake by putting an air cylinder on every car. The loco would pump air into the cars to release the brakes. Releasing air would trigger the car's air cylinder, and that would put the brakes on. If a train becomes uncoupled, the train's brakes would come on full force.
Anyways, air brakes became mandatory in the late 1800's.
Electric headlights became required by WWI; before that, oil lamps were used. Usually whale oil in the 1800's. But headlights were only used at night back then.
For a bunch of steam loco photos of New England railroads (including some really old pics), check out these links:https://sites.google.com/site/nynhhsteam/
https://sites.google.com/site/bostonandmainerailroad/
https://sites.google.com/site/bostonalbanyrailroad/
Good luck!
In American there were generally fewer "classes" than in Europe. American coaches tended to have an open interior with rows of seats (typically 2 on each side of an aisle) with a luggage rack above the seats. The seats could be "flipped' so they faced forward or backwards. Sleepers in the US tended to be Pullmans, which were open compartments with two bench seats that faced each other. The seats folded down to form a bead and another bed (or "berth") would fold down out of the ceiling to form two beds above each other. Higher class cars had a variety of room arrangements.
Dining cars had a kitchen in one end with a hallway along the outside and then a series of tables against the wall on each side of an aisle, each table sat 4.
British or European trains differed from US practice in that early cars had doors in the sides to each compartment, while US practice was to put doors on the ends of the cars.
For a high end European train, watch any of the "Murder on the Orient Express" movies. While not exactly accurate, it will give you an idea.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman In American there were generally fewer "classes" than in Europe. American coaches tended to have an open interior with rows of seats (typically 2 on each side of an aisle) with a luggage rack above the seats. The seats could be "flipped' so they faced forward or backwards. Sleepers in the US tended to be Pullmans, which were open compartments with two bench seats that faced each other. The seats folded down to form a bead and another bed (or "berth") would fold down out of the ceiling to form two beds above each other. Higher class cars had a variety of room arrangements. Dining cars had a kitchen in one end with a hallway along the outside and then a series of tables against the wall on each side of an aisle, each table sat 4. British or European trains differed from US practice in that early cars had doors in the sides to each compartment, while US practice was to put doors on the ends of the cars. For a high end European train, watch any of the "Murder on the Orient Express" movies. While not exactly accurate, it will give you an idea.
This arrangement was much better than an earlier arrangement which made use of a bed-length panel that was placed between seat backs..
Johnny
You can learn about early American passenger car interiors from any number of Western movies such as "High Noon" or "3:10 to Yuma." Just about any Western has train scenes which include stations, water towers, layouts of track and so forth. I also recommend "Dodge City" with Errol Flynn- lots of train scenes and the mother of all saloon fights. Not to change the subject, of course.
Without getting too complicated, the basic locomotive design at the birth of industrialization in North America was the 4-4-0 "American" type. Think the famous locomotive "General" from the American Civil War.
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This type usually burned wood or coal, and could pull 6-10 train cars behind it.
I hope this is the simple answer you were seeking.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
For a little HOLLYWOOD view, see if you can find a copy of Johnny Depp's Lone Ranger movie. Very bad movie but interesting representation of old trains.
Alice,
Perhaps the best resource for early American passenger trains is The American Railroad Passenger Car by John H. White. The original version of the book was published in 1977 and a two volume softcover reprint was pt out in the late 1980's. His work starts with the stagecoach on railroad wheels and goes up to the first generation of Amfleet cars.
If you're thinking about carrying freight and passengers in the same train, what you have is a "mixed train". While mixed trains abounded on branch lines and small railroads, they were generally slow, made all stops, and frequently dropped and picked up freight cars (there's the "cars" again!). Lumber would be shipped in box cars, loaded one stick at a time. Passenger cars, with the exception of very high-end (passenger only) trains would have an open platform on each end .
"+1" to erikem's post above - - you beat me to it!
- PDN.
Thanks Paul.
I remember first seeing a copy of the 2-volume reprint in Bookstar or B&N, first thought it was some so-so attempt at a railroad book - judging by the cover. Got my eyes opened when I took the time to look through it...
The book(s) also go into how life in the cars changed with time and lots of details that could add realism to the story.
- Erik
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