What if the Virginian Rwy. (VGN) had not merged with N&W in 1959?

[MidlandMike]

I think the UP extending a tentacle east to hook up with the VGN would have been as big a failure as the Milwaukee Road extension to the Pacific Coast, or Gould's WP to the Bay Area.  They were also extensions with few feeders into areas with well-established railroads.  A UP expansion of that sort to a secondary port on the Atlantic would have been lost in the overwhelming tangle of eastern railroads.  As you say, the VGN was purpose built to haul coal from WV to Norfolk, with a back door at Deepwater, WV, to the Great Lakes area.

[CatFoodFlambe]

I wonder - would the Seaboard Coast Line have been interested in acquiring the VGN had it been available in the late 1960's?   This would have given the SCL a foothold in the then-still-valuable Central Appalachian coal franchise, a direct connection with PC for traffic moving from the Midwest to the Mid-Atlantic state and the Carolinas (vs a roundabout routing using the L&N through Kentucky and Tennessee),  and a small, but profitable base in the Charleston WV chemical industry for traffic to and from the Southeast.

Perhaps their control over Clinchfield met part of this need, but the connections and coal base would have only added to SCL benefit.    

 

[VGN Jess]

I think, like you, that the Clinchfield met the ACL/SCL coal hauling needs. I've been surprised that no responders have thought the UP/MP/ATSF would have wanted to extend track to WV/OH and buy the VGN.

[samfp1943]

VGN Jess

"I think, like you, that the Clinchfield met the ACL/SCL coal hauling needs. I've been surprised that no responders have thought the UP/MP/ATSF would have wanted to extend track to WV/OH and buy the VGN."

  VGN Jess:  The MP was a pretty 'healthy' railroad into the late 1950's, growth under the management of Dowing Jenks(?).  It comprised a railroad of something like 7 to 9 thousand miles(?),  and its locomotive roster was considered to be very modern(?).     The problems with the Missori Pacific was that it had grown under the guidance of the Gould Family (Jay and then George). They lost control of MP in 1915 in a bankruptcy filing.

  The MP was in Col., Ne.,Ark,La. and Tx..,    In 1917 it was merged with St Louis and Iron Mtn. [SLSM] to become the MP RR. [ Roughly,SLSM, a line from the St. Louis area to NW Arkansas].   It had also gained control over some railroads in Tx. Prime accusition seemed to be the T&P.  In the early 1930's it went again, into bankruptcy, and receivership, that ended in 1956.

Into the 1980's MP was a bigger railroad that Union Pacific. In 1961 Dowing Jenks took over the railroad as president.  under his watch they locomotive fleet was built to about 1500 locomotives, and many were considered to be newer <10 years old(?). it utilized computer technologies, and inovations (ie: TOFC). was a railroad of about 11,500 miles in 11states and lines to the Gulf Coast, and into the Laredo(Tx) area. It had also reached the Chicago area and linked it with Denver, It was pretty solidly entrenched in the southern reaches of the Midwestern states(?).

     With the 'big' Union Pacific merger of 1982, UPRR took in MP as well as WP; at that time MP was reported to be a larger physical plant and had more locomotives than UPRR(?).   UP gained access to the Eastern half of the country, by crossing the Mississippi River at several locations, in Illinois, and Tennesse (IIRC?)  I think it was somewhat interesting that within the framework of the merger, a number of MP's locomotives were painted in the UP's scheme of Armor Yellow and grey, and lettered for 'Missouri Pacific', as well I think that there was also a period in the 1980's when technically it was UPRR merged into MP(?). Not really solid on that one issue...?

 I would suggest that one 'issue' that made the VGN, an unlikely merger candidate would have been the financially strong Southern Rwy, and also the N&W. Which seemed to operate in parallel with the VGN(?).  VGN in the early 20th Century seems to have been a better constructed railroad, and solvent financially(?).

[timz]

samfp1943

Into the 1980's MP was a bigger railroad that Union Pacific.

By route-miles, you mean? Not ton-miles?

[VGN Jess]

Sam: Great info on the MP; thanks. When you suggest that one 'issue' that made the VGN, an unlikely merger candidate would have been the financially strong Southern Rwy, and also the N&W, are you suggesting that was because both would have fought the SCC to NOT let that buyout happen? Otherwise, what could they have done to stop it?  If the UP was smaller in 1960 than mP wouldn't UP have been interested in a coast to coast direct transcon?

[VGN Jess]

Sam: VGN was solvent to the end with the lowest OP in the east in 1959. My initial post was predicated on some western RR swooping in on SR/ACL/NW territory to get a jewell like the VGN-just FYI.

[samfp1943]

timz

samfp1943

Into the 1980's MP was a bigger railroad that Union Pacific.

"By route-miles, you mean? Not ton-miles? " 

         Yes, by size of its physical plant (route miles, and its equipment). Not sure of the exact financials(?), but obviously, UP was able to merge, by buying WP and MP. 

  MP's service of the the Gulf Coast areas of La, and Tx {The "Chemical Coast"?) would have been a 'plumb', not to mention its' connection from that area to Chicago, as well(?).   UPRR definitely came out as a winner in that merger.