Great article in the last issue regarding EH Harrison's impact on CP. In the article it mentions that transit time for Vancouver to Chicago is down to 88 hours (verses CN's 96 hours). BNSF offers LA to Chicago in 64 hours..and there's no international border crossing involved. To me, it looks as if BNSF would be the clear winner in this market.. although Vancouver is a little closer to Asia than LA is, the time savings on the ocean voyage would appear to be negated by CP's longer transit time from Vancouver to Chicago.
I
Shorter distance by Water?
UlrichBNSF offers LA to Chicago in 64 hours
Does that cost extra?
The issue is always time and money and capacity. If the traffic is highly time sensative, some is, much is not particularly, then the relevant time it origin to export port, time thru port, steaming time, time thru import port, rail trainsit time, unload at rail yard, dray to destination. What you will find is that the origin end is what it is, steamship time is dominated by mileage, and a few hours difference in train schedules is probably not the controlling factor.
The other big deal is money. Every body needs to get paid. One item most Americans are unaware of is harbor dredging costs. US rightly requires the steamship companies to pay for some or all. Canada does not. Advantage Canada. Port charges are probably similar, but I am sure some are higher than others. Destination drays will also vary based on actual origin-destination pairs. Steamship rates are unregulated so one line may offer a special deal that another does not. Again the point is that there are many factors in play here that will affect how the traffic is actually routed.
Mac
How much dredging is required in Vancouver compared to LA/Long Beach?
Roberts Bank is near the Fraser River delta, but the other terminals are on Burrard inlet, which has little inflow and probably does not require as much work.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Interesting point about dredging.. never thought about that aspect.
SD70DudeHow much dredging is required in Vancouver compared to LA/Long Beach? Roberts Bank is near the Fraser River delta, but the other terminals are on Burrard inlet, which has little inflow and probably does not require as much work.
All ports are at the mouth of some river system. River systems move silt down the length of the system. With the port area itself being realatively calm water - the silt will deposit it self in the calm areas.
Ports - ALL OF THEM - have to be dredged on a continuing basis to maintain their established channels to their advertized depths. It doesn't look good to have a freighter run aground in the established channels when loaded to the maximum advertised draft.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
PNWRMNMThe issue is always time and money and capacity. If the traffic is highly time sensative, some is, much is not particularly, then the relevant time it origin to export port, time thru port, steaming time, time thru import port, rail trainsit time, unload at rail yard, dray to destination. What you will find is that the origin end is what it is, steamship time is dominated by mileage, and a few hours difference in train schedules is probably not the controlling factor.
The Prince Rupert people have this table on shipping times to various ports. Prince Rupert is 55 hours less than the time to Los Angles.
https://www.cn.ca/en/repository/popups/tools/prince-rupert-transit-time-advantage/
Ulrich Great article in the last issue regarding EH Harrison's impact on CP. In the article it mentions that transit time for Vancouver to Chicago is down to 88 hours (verses CN's 96 hours). BNSF offers LA to Chicago in 64 hours..and there's no international border crossing involved. To me, it looks as if BNSF would be the clear winner in this market.. although Vancouver is a little closer to Asia than LA is, the time savings on the ocean voyage would appear to be negated by CP's longer transit time from Vancouver to Chicago. I
Great article in the last issue regarding EH Harrison's impact on CP. In the article it mentions that transit time for Vancouver to Chicago is down to 88 hours (verses CN's 96 hours). BNSF offers LA to Chicago in 64 hours..and there's no international border crossing involved. To me, it looks as if BNSF would be the clear winner in this market.. although Vancouver is a little closer to Asia than LA is, the time savings on the ocean voyage would appear to be negated by CP's longer transit time from Vancouver to Chicago. I
BaltACD SD70Dude How much dredging is required in Vancouver compared to LA/Long Beach? Roberts Bank is near the Fraser River delta, but the other terminals are on Burrard inlet, which has little inflow and probably does not require as much work. All ports are at the mouth of some river system. River systems move silt down the length of the system. With the port area itself being realatively calm water - the silt will deposit it self in the calm areas. Ports - ALL OF THEM - have to be dredged on a continuing basis to maintain their established channels to their advertized depths. It doesn't look good to have a freighter run aground in the established channels when loaded to the maximum advertised draft.
SD70Dude How much dredging is required in Vancouver compared to LA/Long Beach? Roberts Bank is near the Fraser River delta, but the other terminals are on Burrard inlet, which has little inflow and probably does not require as much work.
And it is no easy or quick process to dredge, particularly if you are deepening the shipping channel. The Port of Savannah, GA is in the process of deepening the channel in the Savannah River the 12 miles from the Atlantic to the port. They started the process of getting permits and getting funding about 10 years before actual dredging started.
SALfan BaltACD SD70Dude How much dredging is required in Vancouver compared to LA/Long Beach? Roberts Bank is near the Fraser River delta, but the other terminals are on Burrard inlet, which has little inflow and probably does not require as much work. All ports are at the mouth of some river system. River systems move silt down the length of the system. With the port area itself being realatively calm water - the silt will deposit it self in the calm areas. Ports - ALL OF THEM - have to be dredged on a continuing basis to maintain their established channels to their advertized depths. It doesn't look good to have a freighter run aground in the established channels when loaded to the maximum advertised draft. And it is no easy or quick process to dredge, particularly if you are deepening the shipping channel. The Port of Savannah, GA is in the process of deepening the channel in the Savannah River the 12 miles from the Atlantic to the port. They started the process of getting permits and getting funding about 10 years before actual dredging started.
Dredging is normally done clamshell bucket by clamshell bucket with the spoils being transferred to a barge that is towed by the dredge vessel until it is full and then taken to a dedicated spoil area to be dumped.
Routine maintenance dredge spoil of Port of Baltimore channels has created two islands in the Chesapeake Bay - Hart and Miller Islands.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Port congestion in LA may be an issue, but the extra two days required to sail to LA over sailing to Vancover is the biggest issue. Two days is a tremendous amount of time for a shipper to give away when thier cargo could already be in Chicago versus on a ship that has just reached LA.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.