Railfanning & Lawenforcement Pt.2.

[Anonymous]

I have a Question for some of you Officers if you could for me Please!
Some day I am gona be going to be going out Railfanning again.....
Do I or do I not (or should I)have to call the local Police just to be on the safe side to let the Police know where I am gona be when I go Railfanning?
Lets say im gona go Railfanning on the BNSF in Oreapolis.Neb. which is in Cass County. Should I call the Sheriff's department just let them know what I will be doing or what? Just to be on the SAFE side.
Please help me out on this,Thanks.
[bow]BNSF[bow]

[jwinter]

I've tried contacting local law enforcement and the local railroad office to tell them I'd be in the area. I've had mixed results. Everything from "thanks for the info" to an "who cares" attitude. Bottom line, if you're on public property and not violating a parking zone or something, and not acting recklessly, you have the right to be there. That doesn't mean however that the local police/sheriff may stop to check you out.

Seems to me the railroads are missing the point by chasing railfans away. I know fans as well as myself who have gone out of their way to report something wrong, suspicious, or dangerous to the railroad involved. Most railroads have a 800 number to report such things. If they would tap into this resource, they would have thousands of eyes out there watching their property.

[gabe]

I am not a police officer. However, I have had much dealings with police officers and their policies.

My only thought is--assuming you obey the law at all times--such calls would distract them from their real task of preventing crime.

Just my hunch, take it or leave it.

Gabe

[JoeKoh]

Guys
Ive mentioned this before. first take pictures leave footprints. Mind your ps and qs when approached by any RR employee or police officer.Lets stay safe out there.
stay safe
Joe

[88gta350]

Whether you contact the local law enforcement agency in that area is up to you. It won't do any harm, and may keep you from being tied up too long by a questioning officer. Having said that, there's really no reason you'd have to. As long as you're on public property and there are no local laws against photographing or requiring permits for what you're doing, then there's really nothing the police can do except question you. Always remember, when approached by an officer or railroad employee, show respect and it will likely be shown to you. Many people have talked themselves into traffic tickets because they forget that. Since you're talking about being on the SAFE side, you may want to call someone. At least it gives you the chance to see how they react to you and the call, so you know whether to bother next time.

[Anonymous]

It's a nice thought and a welcome courtesy, but not really neccessary. When you call in to my county, for example, you will talk to a dispatcher, who will make the decision on whether to pass your information on to a road patrolman. Considering the amount of radio traffic I get, your call would fall into the "nice to know" arena, but again, not really neccessary for me to do my job.

Erik

[MP57313]

I agree I can't see this being necessary. The earlier comments about following the laws, respecting private property and security officers, etc. should be fine.

If by chance you do get questioned, make sure you have all your identifying info (license, registration, proof of insurance) up to date...signs of "good citizenship"...

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I have a Question for some of you Officers if you could for me Please!
Some day I am gona be going to be going out Railfanning again.....
Do I or do I not (or should I)have to call the local Police just to be on the safe side to let the Police know where I am gona be when I go Railfanning?
Lets say im gona go Railfanning on the BNSF in Oreapolis.Neb. which is in Cass County. Should I call the Sheriff's department just let them know what I will be doing or what? Just to be on the SAFE side.
Please help me out on this,Thanks.
[bow]BNSF[bow]

My opinion is that it would depend greatly on where you are going. If it's some small town, then it might help. If it's a moderate to large size city, I think you would probably get a negative reaction. Even if they did care, there's not much they could do about it. They're not going to bother releasing some sort of notice or something because police departments in urban areas have a hard enough time just getting the info about bad people dispersed through the department. And as far as RR police... Maybe I'm wrong, but I think their attitude would probably lean more towards negative then positive. It's a lot easier for people to say no, then say yes. So why draw attention to yourself, especially if you're not doing anything wrong. Logic would dictate that a warning given to law enforcement, would automatically make you a non threat in the minds of the enforcers... After all, if you were going to do something wrong, why would you tell the police about it first. But unfortunately, I've often found it has the reverse effect... They just become more suspicious. Makes no sense, but it's the truth.

It would be nice if doing the right thing always had a positive outcome, but unfortunately it sometimes doesn't.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Home of the TrainTenna RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[Anonymous]

I figure that as long you're on public land photographing, or watching trains, not acting "suspicious," and are in plain view while trainwatching, you're okay. That being said, I've gotten a few funny looks from railroad policemen as I was watching a train pass through the UP North Salt Lake yard, but I was never on UP property. I guess railroad cops are suspicious of everyone, but I can't blame them for that, what with some of the things that can happen in the rail yards, and homeland security and all...... but that's another story. Anyway, that's my two cents. [2c]

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I have never tried to contact law enforcement officers before I have done any railfanning because I can't always predict where I will be at any one time. As long as you stay on public property you should be fine. Aside from defense installations I wonder if laws against photographing things from public property are enforceable.

Today it seems most police departments have more to do than to hassle people who are obeying the law.

[halifaxcn]

We all know the rules for tresspassing, just don't do it. Now I will put on my offical LE hat. If my agency got a call from some one stating they were going to be in town watching trains, our eyebrows would come up. I and a few others would be a bit more understanding with the call, but most of the troops would start questioning.

I have said it over and over here, just mind your own business. If a cop arrives speak politely and provide your name and ID. DO NOT GIVE THEM ATTITUDE, you will lose and frankly it is just not worth the hassle. Remember, the cops don't know you from Adam and will be wary until questioning revels that you are not a threat to them. At this point their posture will relax a bit. You may even find out that they are rail fans. I know from this forum that there are a few of us. My only problem is we wind up talking "shop" and I have missed a few moves, because I was not paying attention!

My advice is stay on public property, or get the owners permission. Do not tresspass and be safe and not a problem.

Enjoy

[Mookie]

Got my feelings hurt this week past. Law enforcement (local) went by many times while we were watching and wouldn't even look at us! So guess the answer would be to swing by and pick up Mookie and the driver and have them in the car with you. No one gives us a second glance! And look at the great service you would be doing Mookie!

I can hardly wait for the calls to come rolling in.......[{(-_-)}]

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, a lady railfan who likes cats... hangs around railyards... has a thing about chocolate cake.....

Even Jack Webb would prolly ask you questions, Madame La Mook!

Erik

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered

Hmmm, a lady railfan who likes cats... hangs around railyards... has a thing about chocolate cake.....

Even Jack Webb would prolly ask you questions, Madame La Mook!

Erik

Erik - (I just love your accent.....)

Even funnier, is I usually have binoculars since my eyesight was never good , a mitt full of papers (writing down engine numbers) and the driver really looks sinister (usually has head down reading something!). And other times, you find both of us with our eyes closed....you know short naps between trains. So can't imagine why they don't at least look our direction! Maybe it's Millie - how offensive would you be driving a Buick?

[:I]

[BNSFGP38]

I have had two cops show up behind me when takeing pictures. This was about a week before the DNC in boston and I happend to photographing the commuter rail. Blunder on my part, but I aint changeing my life for the dems'.[}:)] After I showed them my department ID, the first of rule of fight club and professional curtousey came into play.[8D]

The worst possilble thing you could do besides tresspassing....... is be a beligerant *** or the " I know my rights and I pay your salary" type to a officer. Going down that road will only lead you to jail or citations.

The fact is---and it seems foriegn to us, is that alot of people dont understand the hobby. The sky is not falling like every HS warning says, but there are people and groups who wish and are trying hard to destroy you, me and this very country. They are out there and to be honest......we dont know who it is. It may not be turnban headed wierd looking guy. At a recent conferance, the newer domestic terror profile is more a rural middle aged man.

Try to think of it as a cop sees it. You get a call from dispatch or you happen upon a person standing next to railroad tracks. I the cop dont know you,dont know what the hell your doing, you have your hands in your pocket ( big no no). How do I know without checking that you are just a rail buff,wanted for murder in 10 states, some assclown wanting to commit suicide or have a bomb strapped to your self.[:0] Thing is .....we dont know.

My suggestions is, make sure you have some form of ID. Dont act squierrly or nervous. Dont have ANY WARRENTS OR EXPIERED REG/LICENSE. Keep your hands where I can see them......the last thing you want to do is make me nervous. Consent to search, even offer it. A simple quick serach of your vehicle and a quick queiry check will tell me that are Joe Q railbuff, not bin laden. It might pay to have a Trains magazine in the car, just to show that this is a legit hobby for those that are not aware of it. Also, if you railfan in groups it makes you look a little more legit than some loner standing next to the tracks. [:0] Just answer the questions in a yes sir/ no sir fashion.

Remember cops are people too and would much rather say " have a nice day and be safe" than "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, you have the right to an attorney before questioning, if you can not afford an attorney one will appointed at no cost to you, you may stop answering questions at anytime........do you understand these rights? Not a good way to end a day of railfanning.[:(]

Dunno, just my advice.....take from it what you want.


In God we trust, all others we run through NCIC.

[Anonymous]

Guys, this is an excellent thread. There's some educational value here for just about anyone, so bear with me while I add my two cents worth. First, I agree totally with BNSFGP38 as to how a cop reacts to railfans. I had a conversation with one of my sons, who happens to be a cop, on this very subject. His take on it was very straightforward, and if you think about it, just common sense. I won't try to quote it exactly, but here's the gist of it: If he observes a person or people near railroad tracks, it's an "oh well" situation unless they're drawing attention to themselves somehow. The other reasons to approach such people would be, for example, if there had been some kind of trouble in the general area, or he had a call about trespassers. There might even be an area that the railroad has asked for help with because of vandalism or some such. Sometimes it's just a cop's instinct that something's not quite right. The point is, he's got better things to do than hassle railfans just for fun. Once there is a reason to check you out, however, you become a potential bad guy. The officer approaching you has no idea who you are, so he approaches with a certain caution. Remember, cops deal with the bad guys every day. You start out neutral, for all intents and purposes, and it's your own attitude, body language, etc. that the cop uses to determine which column you belong in; the good guy column, or the bad guy column. Getting off to a bad start in these circumstances is a really dumb thing to do. Now, we all know that most railfans are pretty good people, but suppose the last railfan your particular cop dealt with was an a--hole. Cut the cop some slack, even if you think he's wrong, and you'll get a lot farther. Here's another take on the whole thing: I am both an engineer and a railfan, so I can speak to both sides of the issue. When I'm in the cab and you're railfanning, I worry about you! Once again, your own actions have a LOT to do with whether or not I report trespassers. We've all seen railfans do stupid things, but thankfully it's not an everyday occurence. First and foremost, keep your distance from the rails. I really don't give a hoot if you're trespassing, I only care that no one gets hurt. The closer you get to the right-of-way, the higher my pulse rate gets. In fact, if you have your dog with you, have him on a leash. That makes me almost as nervous as a human being. If you love your critters as much as I love mine, you'll understand where I'm coming from. I'm going to get off my soapbox now, but one last thought: If you're railfanning and you see irresponsible behavior, YOU report it. Call the cops, call the railroad, do whatever you have to do. The surest way to get railfanning banned is for people to get hurt. OK folks, that's enough out of me for today. Besides, I gotta go to work. Be Safe. J.D. Nomad

[BNSFGP38]

QUOTE: First and foremost, keep your distance from the rails. I really don't give a hoot if you're trespassing, I only care that no one gets hurt. The closer you get to the right-of-way, the higher my pulse rate gets

Amen brother! I am an engineer at a museum and nothing get my heart raceing more than comeing into the station and parents not paying attention or holding thier little ones.
I wont say how many times, but one to many ----a small child has come running INTO THE GAUGE!!! [:0][:0] [:(!] Not only has my heart hit the roof, and I am about faint............but the conductors have probally fallen down on thier face cause I just threw the train into emergency at 4 MPH.....so its rather sudden the stop. [:(]

[Anonymous]

BNSFGP38, A museum? I can only imagine what that's like. A zillion people, all with the attitude that "I paid to get in here so I can go wherever I want". Let alone the fact that at least half of these folks tell their kids to go have a good time, and "meet me back here in two hours". Of course, I'm guessing about this, but I'll bet I'm not too far off. I'm not at all sure I'd even want to be in the cab, let alone at the throttle, in that situation. Scary! J.D. Nomad

[BNSFGP38]

Nomad, your right on the $$$$!!!!!

You know, looking through my photos today I got reminded of something that happend in 98. I was visting my mother after her recent divorce/move in the the town of Auburn WA. I was in the 8th grade and live Mass so the " big time" railroading was impressive to me. The BNSF has a large yard there Auburn. I was watching the local do some work. My mother parked near the yard office, with the yard masters permission of course.

During the switching I noticed the 3 kids climb in between cars . The conductor didnt notice because it was on the firemans side and engineer didnt notice them either. A soon as I saw this the train contiues some real long cut switching,so I run to the conductor and screaming to stop. I told the the conductor, he run to where I saw them.
He sees them there yells at them and has the local cops called on the kids and escorts(I thought I was in trouble) those kids and
me to the yard master office.

He has me sit down while the cops come and take the kids. The conductor and yardmaster came in to the small office with my mom, say thank you very very much young man for letting us know about them. They gave me a BNSF hat, calander and latern. [8D] To me at the time, I felt like king of the world----I got to help the railroad,watch big time railroading and got a hat I wear with a small smug pride even today.[:p][8)]

Just an example of how railfans can be useful in REDUCEING liability, if we play by the rules.

[overall]

Always keep your hands where they can see them if they approach you.

George

[kwboehm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I have a Question for some of you Officers if you could for me Please!
Some day I am gona be going to be going out Railfanning again.....
Do I or do I not (or should I)have to call the local Police just to be on the safe side to let the Police know where I am gona be when I go Railfanning?
Lets say im gona go Railfanning on the BNSF in Oreapolis.Neb. which is in Cass County. Should I call the Sheriff's department just let them know what I will be doing or what? Just to be on the SAFE side.
Please help me out on this,Thanks.
[bow]BNSF[bow]

Being a Deputy Sheriff in the above mentioned county, I can tell you that we rarely get calls about photographers. The last call I got was shortly after 9/11 of someone parked under the Mo. River bridge southeast of Plattsmouth, which turned out to be the newly hired security guard that BNSF had contracted with beacuse of 9/11. The only other call I know of was when I got called in on while I was off-duty. UP called me in south of Union as I was turning around on a county road along the tracks. The only thing I can warn you about Oreapolis is that the road along the tracks is labeled "Not a Through Street", and it is also within that "right-of-way" easement which is 50 feet on either side of the tracks. Also watch out for flying propane tanks in that area in light of last year's mishap there. They have moved all the tanks since then. Also I've been patrolling odwn in that area, and the neighbors probably won't call you in, but I can't exactly say as they are the friendliest people either. Or maybe my car with the gold star just annoyed them.

Seriously, BNSFGP38 hits it on the head. As a cop IF I were to be dispatched, don't know you from Adam. Following his simple rules of etiquette will get you on your way much quicker than the trackside attorney "I know my rights" bit. As with his dept., it is our protocol to run people we contact to make sure of the things he mentioned (warrants, axe-muderer on 10 state killing spree, license status, etc.). As far as calling ahead to the local agency, depending who you get, even within our own dept. may get you varied responses from the "thank you" to the "so what". As the cop on the street I appreciate it, but still keep in mind even if you do call and I contact you, I still don't know you from Adam, and I will run the checks on you. Then dispatch may say, "Oh yeah, he's the one that called in & said he would be there". Again, follow BNSFGP38's tips and you'll be back to your thing in no time (or as quick as the NCIC computer allows).

[Mookie]

This is slightly off-topic, but you brought up neighbors. Lately, I have heard more neighbors snitching on their neighbors than ever before. The police are handling more "he is blowing leaves in my driveway", he is blowing snow into the street and "he is watering his lawn and it isn't his day". Have we become more lax in our observance of the laws or just better snitches?

[Anonymous]

Mookie you should knoe the answer to that....it's very simple[:)].

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

Mookie you should knoe the answer to that....it's very simple[:)].

Yeah, I do know. And it saddens me that we aren't even friendly neighbors any more.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

Mookie you should knoe the answer to that....it's very simple[:)].

Yeah, I do know. And it saddens me that we aren't even friendly neighbors any more.

You don't live in a subdivision by any chance do you? Since we are off-topic anyway, I will interject with urban sprawl has destroyed the art of neighborliness--along with several other things.

Gabe

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

Mookie you should knoe the answer to that....it's very simple[:)].

Yeah, I do know. And it saddens me that we aren't even friendly neighbors any more.

You don't live in a subdivision by any chance do you? Since we are off-topic anyway, I will interject with urban sprawl has destroyed the art of neighborliness--along with several other things.

Gabe

Actually, we live in an old neighborhood - 2 blocks from where I grew up. But following your thinking - it is a lot of the newer neighborhoods that have the complaints.

Some calls are still in the central part of town, but there is so much rental property there that those calls are more drug related. (I can smell code 74 in the hallway or they are parked in front and a lot of people are going up to the driver's side window....)

Our neighborhood is pretty quiet, so far......