CSX: "are you going to get any better, or is this it"

2489 views
85 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January, 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 10,487 posts
CSX: "are you going to get any better, or is this it"
Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:12 AM

Famous Earl Weaver quote to umpire who he thought was blowing balls and strikes calls.  

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

This is even less than I thought he could do, and I wasn't optomistic.

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:24 AM

oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:28 AM

Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 3,459 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:17 AM

They may stay the same, get better, or get worse..nobody knows. 

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:26 AM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 3,917 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:50 AM

I wouldn't say EHH's plan is failing.  Assuming of course that the plan is to make service so bad that the business you don't really want goes away on it's own.  I'd say he's ahead of the game compared to other class ones.

I've never cared for using velocity as a metric.  I've noticed our velocity tends to get better as car loadings get worse.

Jeff

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: Mission BC Canada
  • 134 posts
Posted by williamsb on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:08 PM

EHH does not report RPM the same as other class 1 RR's. When he was at CN they would not include CN's numbers. When they changed back to reporting the same as other class 1's CN's Terminal Dwell Time about doubled. They do not accept CP's or CSX's reporting now.

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: US
  • 12,545 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:40 PM

williamsb
EHH does not report RPM the same as other class 1 RR's. When he was at CN they would not include CN's numbers. When they changed back to reporting the same as other class 1's CN's Terminal Dwell Time about doubled. They do not accept CP's or CSX's reporting now.

EHH has devised a system of numbers that have little relation to the 'traditional' numbers.  Those traditional numbers were devised in concert with the STB to measure the service melt downs that over the past 3 decades have happened on UP with both their CNW and SP acquisitions as well as CSX & NS's issues with the ConRail split and acquisition.

EHH features he can manipulate his numbers so that they are always 'good'.  It appears he isn't able to do this with CSX at this time.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:48 PM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:58 PM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

Nowhere have I tried to tell you or your "us" group what Don means.  All I have done is characterize what his comments mean to me and why I regard them the way I do.  I would be surprised if he were offended by my question. I don't care what his comments mean to you.   

  • Member since
    December, 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 17,350 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:27 PM

You know, I read Don's post several times and never found the word "frozen."

How I interpreted the post was that, despite EHH's exhortations that his efforts were going to make CSX a better railroad, there doesn't seem to be any improvement happening.  If improvement was happening, one would tend to think that the standard measurements would be showing some consistent improvement, however slight.

Which would be to say that the current measurements may be the "new normal."  They will vary, but unless they trend in an appropriate direction over several months, perhaps what you see now with CSX is what you're going to get.

To me, "frozen" implies that the current status is planned, rather than the result of how the railroad is being run.  As was noted, though, if EHH's plan is to run the railroad into the ground, maybe that is an accurate assessment.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October, 2016
  • 126 posts
Posted by Saturnalia on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:53 PM

My greatest wonder going forward is what'll happen this winter. Harrison likes his long trains and the CSX of before liked them, too. But we all know hopes and wishes won't pump air on 15,000 feet of train at 15 degrees. 

I'll be curious to see if the system melts back down this winter. It's a La Nina year so snowier and colder in the Great Lakes in particular. 

CN and CP had DPU to make up for it. I'm actually kinda surprised it hasn't taken hold on CSX yet. 

Inqiring minds can't wait to see what happens, one way or the other. 

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:31 PM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

 

 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

Nowhere have I tried to tell you or your "us" group what Don means.  All I have done is characterize what his comments mean to me and why I regard them the way I do.  I would be surprised if he were offended by my question. I don't care what his comments mean to you.   

 

I beg to differ. For reference, I've marked your words in red. You must care what his words mean to someone as you are trying to explain what they mean to somebody.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:29 PM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

 

 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

Nowhere have I tried to tell you or your "us" group what Don means.  All I have done is characterize what his comments mean to me and why I regard them the way I do.  I would be surprised if he were offended by my question. I don't care what his comments mean to you.   

 

 

 

I beg to differ. For reference, I've marked your words in red. You must care what his words mean to someone as you are trying to explain what they mean to somebody.

 

 

The "someone" is me.  It is only "I" that is asking what his words mean.  When I say "it sounds like he means...", I mean it sounds that way to me.  If anything, I was asking you, Don,  or others to tell me what he means. 

I have marked some words in his original post and quote it below. I understand perfectly what he is saying before the part made bold and highlighted in red.  I have no idea what the part in red means:

 

"Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like."

 

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Louisiana
  • 1,398 posts
Posted by Paul of Covington on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:11 PM

   Hey, it's been quite a while since we've had enough quotes of quotes to wind up with one letter per line.   We're getting close here.

_____________

   My mind's made up.   Don't confuse me with the facts.

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:17 PM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

 

 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

 

 

How do you know it isn't now frozen? The numbers being flat for 2 months would be the major clue.

 

 

 

 

I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.  But I also don’t know what frozen duration Don is stipulating.  He says, "what you see is what you get,” and "...this is what CSX under EHH will look Like.”  That sounds like he is saying that the process is frozen for all time based on the numbers not moving for two months.  That is was I consider to be a leap.   Even if the flat numbers for two months mean the system has been frozen for two months, that not indicate that the EHH plan is failing.

 

 

 

  You don't have to tell us what Don means. He's quite capable of that on his own and we all can read. Since it's all opinion, I'll take the opinion of someone with railroading in his background (Don) over someone without (You).

 

 

 

Nowhere have I tried to tell you or your "us" group what Don means.  All I have done is characterize what his comments mean to me and why I regard them the way I do.  I would be surprised if he were offended by my question. I don't care what his comments mean to you.   

 

 

 

I beg to differ. For reference, I've marked your words in red. You must care what his words mean to someone as you are trying to explain what they mean to somebody.

 

 

 

 

The "someone" is me.  It is only "I" that is asking what his words mean.  When I say "it sounds like he means...", I mean it sounds that way to me.  If anything, I was asking you, Don,  or others to tell me what he means. 

I have marked some words in his original post and quote it below. I understand perfectly what he is saying before the part made bold and highlighted in red.  I have no idea what the part in red means:

 

"Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like."

 

 

It sounds to me like you don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:28 PM

Murphy Siding
It sounds to me like you don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.

I don’t think the process is frozen.  Although I do know that the process has the numbers speaking for it, and of course, what you see is what you get.  And what you see is what CSX will look like.  And that is looking at the glass half full which can affect the process if you are too optimistic.

  • Member since
    January, 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 10,487 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:18 PM

Euclid

 

 
oltmannd

 

Just checked CSX numbers (from STB web site).  Compared to a month ago, train speed down 0.3 mph.  Dwell flat.  Cars on Line up 2000.

What does this mean?  The numbers are the "voice of the process".  That the numbers have been virtually flat for about two months now means that what you see is what you get.  They are no better than a year ago, pre-EHH.

Absent any new initiatives to get things moving, i.e. more locomotives, crews etc., this is what CSX under EHH will look like.  

 

 

 

 

 

That seems like quite a leap.  The numbers may be the voice of the process, but how do you know the process is now frozen?

 

Two months with no change is good indication of no change in the process.  CSX could improve their process, but that requires doing something different or deploying resources differently or having more resources.  I haven't read or seen any sign of any of these.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    January, 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 10,487 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:21 PM

Ulrich

They may stay the same, get better, or get worse..nobody knows. 

 

They don't change by "praying to the graph".  Somebody or something has to be different.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:51 PM

Euclid

 

 
Murphy Siding
It sounds to me like you don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.

 

I don’t think the process is frozen.  Although I do know that the process has the numbers speaking for it, and of course, what you see is what you get.  And what you see is what CSX will look like.  And that is looking at the glass half full which can affect the process if you are too optimistic.

 



Euclid


I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.


So which is it?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    April, 2002
  • From: Northern Florida
  • 1,308 posts
Posted by SALfan on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:24 PM

BaltACD

 

 
williamsb
EHH does not report RPM the same as other class 1 RR's. When he was at CN they would not include CN's numbers. When they changed back to reporting the same as other class 1's CN's Terminal Dwell Time about doubled. They do not accept CP's or CSX's reporting now.

 

EHH has devised a system of numbers that have little relation to the 'traditional' numbers.  Those traditional numbers were devised in concert with the STB to measure the service melt downs that over the past 3 decades have happened on UP with both their CNW and SP acquisitions as well as CSX & NS's issues with the ConRail split and acquisition.

EHH features he can manipulate his numbers so that they are always 'good'.  It appears he isn't able to do this with CSX at this time.

 

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"?  Looks like EBB has moved on into statistics.

  • Member since
    April, 2016
  • 466 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:27 AM

Yeah and no one believes his Stats anymore as they know the truth and knows he hides what is really going on behind his numbers.  

  • Member since
    January, 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 10,487 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:58 AM

williamsb

EHH does not report RPM the same as other class 1 RR's. When he was at CN they would not include CN's numbers. When they changed back to reporting the same as other class 1's CN's Terminal Dwell Time about doubled. They do not accept CP's or CSX's reporting now.

 

You can find the CSX STB numbers here: https://www.stb.gov/stb/railserviceissues/rail_service_reports.html#loaded

They come out on Friday for the previous week.  Dwell and train speed same as AAR published numbers

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    December, 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 17,350 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:11 AM

SALfan
Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"?  Looks like EBB has moved on into statistics.

Benjamin Disraeli.

The sentiment still applies, though.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:18 AM

Murphy Siding
Euclid


I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.



So which is it?

 

 

Assuming that frozen means no improvement or degradation in CSX performance under the continued influence of EHH, I see no proof to conclude that it is or is not frozen.  However, being frozen seems far less likely than being unfrozen.   

The three statistics are only the results of operational inputs rather than a detail of the inputs.  With a bomb thrower like Harrison running the show, I think it is likely that operational inputs are continuing, even if capital inputs such as equipment purchases are not happening.  And who's to say that even those capital inputs will not happen in a month or two even if they are not happening today?  I would not even conclude that capital inputs are not currently underway.

All I can conclude is that the three performance statistics have been flat for two months. 

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:50 AM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
Euclid


I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.



So which is it?

 

 

 

 

Assuming that frozen means no improvement or degradation in CSX performance under the continued influence of EHH, I see no proof to conclude that it is or is not frozen.  However, being frozen seems far less likely than being unfrozen.   

The three statistics are only the results of operational inputs rather than a detail of the inputs.  With a bomb thrower like Harrison running the show, I think it is likely that operational inputs are continuing, even if capital inputs such as equipment purchases are not happening.  And who's to say that even those capital inputs will not happen in a month or two even if they are not happening today?  I would not even conclude that capital inputs are not currently underway.

All I can conclude is that the three performance statistics have been flat for two months. 

 



Dude! Surely you can't only quote half the post out of context and expect to be taken seriously!

Here's the part you left out:

Euclid


I don’t think the process is frozen.  Although I do know that the process has the numbers speaking for it, and of course, what you see is what you get.  And what you see is what CSX will look like.  And that is looking at the glass half full which can affect the process if you are too optimistic.


You are arguing with yourself againg and it's hard to tell who is winning the arguement.

     All I can conclude is that someone with a railroad background (Don) has expressed his opinion. Someone with no railroad background (You) doubts that opinion by adding things that aren't even in the opinion>>>  "Frozen" for example. I'm going with Don's opinion.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • 3,984 posts
Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:36 AM

Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
Euclid


I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.



So which is it?

 

 

 

 

Assuming that frozen means no improvement or degradation in CSX performance under the continued influence of EHH, I see no proof to conclude that it is or is not frozen.  However, being frozen seems far less likely than being unfrozen.   

The three statistics are only the results of operational inputs rather than a detail of the inputs.  With a bomb thrower like Harrison running the show, I think it is likely that operational inputs are continuing, even if capital inputs such as equipment purchases are not happening.  And who's to say that even those capital inputs will not happen in a month or two even if they are not happening today?  I would not even conclude that capital inputs are not currently underway.

All I can conclude is that the three performance statistics have been flat for two months. 

 

 

 



Dude! Surely you can't only quote half the post out of context and expect to be taken seriously!

Here's the part you left out:

 
Euclid


I don’t think the process is frozen.  Although I do know that the process has the numbers speaking for it, and of course, what you see is what you get.  And what you see is what CSX will look like.  And that is looking at the glass half full which can affect the process if you are too optimistic.



You are arguing with yourself againg and it's hard to tell who is winning the arguement.

     All I can conclude is that someone with a railroad background (Don) has expressed his opinion. Someone with no railroad background (You) doubts that opinion by adding things that aren't even in the opinion>>>  "Frozen" for example. I'm going with Don's opinion.

 

 

You seem to be going out of your way to provoke hostility as you defend Don against what you regard as a personal attack on him by me.  All I had done in my original comment was ask him for clarification.  He eventually provided that clarification last night.  He did not seem to have taken my question as a personal affront like you do on his behalf in defending him. 

My use of the word "frozen" was just my way of packaging several phrases that Don used in his first post such as, "what you see is what you get."  It was just conversational shorthand to make positions easier to understand.  It was not a conspiracy to undermine or trip up Don, as you seem to have discovered. It did not change any meaning. 

I am not arguing with myself.  The part I left out of my quote was actually tongue in cheek to begin with as a parody of how complicated your were making the issue of whether I thought the process was frozen.  It was not needed in my response in which I quoted around it. 

I don't agree with Don's opinion on this because I don't think the data is sufficient.  You are, of course, free to agree with anything you want for any reason.

You have no idea what my background is. 

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: US
  • 12,545 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:53 AM

Frozen

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • 4,171 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:58 AM

Euclid
Assuming that frozen means no improvement or degradation in CSX performance under the continued influence of EHH ...

Aside from the basic silliness of responding to ‘I don’t know if it’s frozen or unfrozen’ with ‘so which is it?’ ... c’mon, Murphy, you know better ... ‘frozen’ here refers to the term as used in the design process, where no more inputs or changes are made to the design in order to make subsequent execution practical.  (Compare ‘creeping featurism’).  The only change thereafter comes through separate ‘change management’ processes and again we have no idea how or if that’s formalized at CSX (I for one certainly hope so, although increasingly losing hope!). It has no relation whatsoever to incidental halts or lack of observed change in process execution.

As has been said, we don’t have hard information on CSX executive planning or priorities OTHER than those from statements or than can be deduced from actions or reflected in metrics.  However, it’s reasonable to assume, as part of normal analytic planning, that an established policy will be continued until there is perceived need enough to change it.  What we know of EHH’s personality, the circumstances surrounding the Mantle Ridge ‘play’, and the combined explanations and hype around ‘precision scheduled railroading’ do not indicate change in the next months, especially when ‘the men who manage money who manage the men who manage men’ are satisfied with the way Hunter says things are going.  

I see no proof to conclude that it is or is not frozen.

And that would be right on multiple levels, but all Don was saying was a version of ‘if this goes on’ (both with respect to policies and trends observable in the effects of policies), and absent specific information about policies changing, the base prediction has to be made by extrapolating what is known or rationally expected (that is a technical term and does not require what we consider the normal meaning of ‘rational thinking!), with different alternatives made up and appropriately weighted.  Otherwise any attempt at meaningful prediction or discourse dissolves into a soup of semantic opinions ... as here.

With a bomb thrower like Harrison running the show ...

I was almost upset enough at this ‘opinion’ to flag it, but it may be the result of too much other knee-jerk anti-EHH rhetoric, so perhaps it’s to be expected.  But do you really think that’s all Harrison is, or that his experience is so meaningless, or things are so out of control at CSX that  you have a Vader-breathing Orfeo Quatta in a Three Stooges skit at the helm?

Of course I don’t think you actually believe that because you then note

I think it is likely that operational inputs are continuing, even if capital inputs such as equipment purchases are not happening.  And who's to say that even those capital inputs will not happen in a month or two even if they are not happening today?

That is all very right... as far as it goes.  But in the absence of any actual pressure to change ... and I think at this point that both the STB and the Maryland Congressional Group are more than incidentally threatening all kinds of what they think constitutes effective pressure ... I’d much more expect the current strategy of beatings to continue until the morale of whatever shippers are left interested in CSX as a carrier improves.  Which, again, is what I think in part Don was getting at.

 

I would not even conclude that capital inputs are not currently underway.

Double negatives used to be deprecated in standard written English, for reason including the one illustrated here.  I know what you meant, but couldn’t you phrase it closer to what you meant?

And why you think you could, or even should, be ‘concluding’ anything, after it’s already established you don’t even know what’s actually going on in CSX management, is worse than silly.  Both the ‘process’ and process improvement are ongoing, and although it may be important to you to state some positive ‘yea’ or ‘nay’ as if it objectively matters, we’d all be better off sticking to conditionals even in opinions.

I am not nearly as interested in the semantics of whether a process might be like some ontological Schroedinger’s cat than in opinions about what, if anything, EHH might change if the numbers, or perceptions of them “where it matters”, stay low or start turning worse.  Or when we might expect to see the current ‘process’ start to produce better metrics (either generally accepted in the railroad business or as spun to be acceptable to those in the money business) and where these might first start to be observable.

‘Conclusions‘ based on insufficient data in a situation where active disinformation is likely in play, with all the baggage historically observed with yes-but’ry followed by a wild swing to an equally ‘conclusive’ different extreme ... little point to that.

  • Member since
    May, 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 11,398 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:05 AM

Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
 
Euclid
 
Murphy Siding
Euclid


I don’t know if the process is or isn’t frozen.



So which is it?

 

 

 

 

Assuming that frozen means no improvement or degradation in CSX performance under the continued influence of EHH, I see no proof to conclude that it is or is not frozen.  However, being frozen seems far less likely than being unfrozen.   

The three statistics are only the results of operational inputs rather than a detail of the inputs.  With a bomb thrower like Harrison running the show, I think it is likely that operational inputs are continuing, even if capital inputs such as equipment purchases are not happening.  And who's to say that even those capital inputs will not happen in a month or two even if they are not happening today?  I would not even conclude that capital inputs are not currently underway.

All I can conclude is that the three performance statistics have been flat for two months. 

 

 

 



Dude! Surely you can't only quote half the post out of context and expect to be taken seriously!

Here's the part you left out:

 
Euclid


I don’t think the process is frozen.  Although I do know that the process has the numbers speaking for it, and of course, what you see is what you get.  And what you see is what CSX will look like.  And that is looking at the glass half full which can affect the process if you are too optimistic.



You are arguing with yourself againg and it's hard to tell who is winning the arguement.

     All I can conclude is that someone with a railroad background (Don) has expressed his opinion. Someone with no railroad background (You) doubts that opinion by adding things that aren't even in the opinion>>>  "Frozen" for example. I'm going with Don's opinion.

 

 

 

 

You seem to be going out of your way to provoke hostility as you defend Don against what you regard as a personal attack on him by me.  All I had done in my original comment was ask him for clarification.  He eventually provided that clarification last night.  He did not seem to have taken my question as a personal affront like you do on his behalf in defending him. 

My use of the word "frozen" was just my way of packaging several phrases that Don used in his first post such as, "what you see is what you get."  It was just conversational shorthand to make positions easier to understand.  It was not a conspiracy to undermine or trip up Don, as you seem to have discovered. It did not change any meaning. 

I am not arguing with myself.  The part I left out of my quote was actually tongue in cheek to begin with as a parody of how complicated your were making the issue of whether I thought the process was frozen.  It was not needed in my response in which I quoted around it. 

I don't agree with Don's opinion on this because I don't think the data is sufficient.  You are, of course, free to agree with anything you want for any reason.

You have no idea what my background is. 

 

No hostility or personal attacks there that I can see. I do agree with your last sentence.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy

Search the Community