Auto Train Derailment....

[Modelcar]

Mistakes are made in business and enterprises every day...by experts. I don't think it hurts to throw out a few suggestions that may relate to a problem. Auto Train is patronized rather well as from what I understand it makes money. I have watched it's make up at Sanford many times and it is a busy place at loading time. Your point is well taken about more traffic on the route with 2 sections but I doubt if it is running to capacity. The two sections could run rather close to each other and perhaps could be scheduled through without much holdup. I don't think you can assume the customers don't want to ride this train.

QM

[herbster]

Hi heres my two cents, and believe me when engneer #1 thru the train in emergancy, number 2 to 102 can pull the emergany brake and nothing will happen. Why? Simple on a train you release air to apply the brakes, when you put it in emergancy it means all the air is exhausted so #2 - 3- can pull all the brake handle they want. Nothing will happen.
Also I think from experiance they will find that those auto car had something to do with it, braking power and weight.

[corwinda]

If one were to run Auto Train that way the logical way to avoid that would be to have the auto rack cars between the lead and DP units and the passenger cars bringing up the rear behind the DP unit.

[jimski2]

I'm really concerned the direction of the investigation is concentrating on the engineer and track conditions. The real problem is why the train accordioned when the emergency brake system was applied.

[wabash1]

your thoughts on making a train go into emergency from the rear are already addressed the eot(end of train device) this box hanging on the rear of freight trains can make a emergency applacation from the rear. but you have a big problem here. when you apply from the rear it has a tendancy to rip your train apart. the problem is that anytime you go into emergency something is bound to happen. what you dont know yet did the engineer bail the brakes. if not the engines being heavier grabed hold the cars being lighter run in then the lightest one was kisked out and the derailment starts. you still can derail streched from the rear but more likly you get the knuckels.

[corwinda]

I believe the train accordioned BECAUSE IT DERAILED! The cars being off the track would cause their wheels/undercarriage to dig into the ties and ballast at the same time as the guidance of the rails was lost. At that point the brakes were basically irrelevant.

[alangj]

What's the snippet of dialogue from a movie back in (I believe) the '40's? Something like...
"Hold on tight, it's going to be a bumpy ride!" For some reason, I'm thinking it was a line by Bette Davis (or maybe Mae West?), but it was a few years before my time, so I don't have true first-hand recollection.

[Anonymous]

I looked at this when there were 36 items, and no one answred your question.

I think that as the emergency application took hold the retarding force of the wheels slowing had the effect of pulling the track in the direction that the train was moving. If that force was sufficient to move the track it would certainly make the kink worse, since it is the weak spot in the track.

I have a vague recollection of a freight train derailment where a similar pattern occurred.

The answer could be much less exotic however. What cars got over it and which one derailed first? Consider truck wheelbase, truck flexibility, distance between truck centers, stiffness of drawbars moving side to side.

Also, while NTSB is good technically, they do not always come up with an answer and they are not always right. They are a political outfit remember.

The accordian pattern is typical of derailments in general and is due to the fact that cars plowing dirt are going to stop a lot faster than those still on the rail.

[jimski2]

Would this have happened if thr train was made up with the heavy older style braked vehicle cars in front and the lighter disc braked cars in the rear of the train?

[Modelcar]

The consensus seems to be the Passenger cars which weigh roughly 80 to 90 tons are not that much lighter than the auto carriers, but their center of gravity must be pretty high...We wonder about the slack action between the auto carriers and how it might affect the comfort, etc. if the Passenger cars were trailing them. I have wondered about the difference of brake systems...Disc vers. conventional on the auto carriers. With the mention of the derailment starting close to the front and the cars digging into the road bed possibly causing the remaining cars to according behind them, etc. Also it seems there is a high risk of problems when a train goes into emergency under any circumstances....So it seems there are no shortage of possibilities.

QM