News Wire: CP, Illinois re-enter settlement talks

[Brian Schmidt]

Railroad, state agency tell Federal regulators they'll continue to talk about Bensenville Yard

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/21-chicago-bensenville

[Norm48327]

News items are stating (claiming) the State Of Illinois is near filing bankruptcy. Even their lottery is close to not being able to honor the committment they have to those who have won jackpots. Imagine you just won $100,000,000 only to be told by the state you will never see that. The ability of Illinois government to continue business has become suspect.

That begs the question of how they will finance the toll road they extol the virtues of even if the courts grant them the privilege of condemning CP property in the process. Would CP actually get paid for the taking of their property or would they be left holding the [empty] bag? That's doubtful in the mind of realists. Suspose they are denied federal funds they are likely relying on. That would doom their project.

Times are tough all over, but a few states keep digging their financial graves, and that  hole keeps getting deeper. Illinois isn't the only one. California comes to mind as spending their way to oblivion while taxing citizens to the breaking point.A few other states are close behind in the race.

The situation will not change until politicians on both sides of the aisle come to the realization you can't spend your way to prosperity without substantial backing. The American taxpayer has, for far too long, been expected to finance the whimseys of politicians.

Having said that, I realize that not all Illinioinans are at fault. What happens in Chcago [politically] dominates the rest of the state just as SOCAL dominates California politics.

Railroads, and since the Staggers act, are a dominant economic force in our economy. Hindering their operations by usurping their property for the dubious benefit the politicians propose is not the best policy.

Off my rant, but I wish CP the best in fending off the assualt.

 

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Illinois Toll Highway Authority is self-funding (from tolls) and is not dependent on the General Assembly for funds.

[diningcar]

I am not sure I understand the "self funding". Does that mean after they are built the tolls sustain their continued operation. Or if not how can funds not yet collected pay for new construction?

[Norm48327]

Will the tolls cover the costs of construction? That doesn't seem likely. Startup money is essential. Someone has to foot the bills to get the road built before there will be income from tolls. Can the politicians bilk the taxpayer to get the money ahead of time? Doubtful at best although I'm sure they would give it a good try.

I see it as starting a new business, almost the same as those proposing the Great Lakes Basin Railroad. The latter would take massive loan guaranties from the federal government (AKA taxpayer subsidies) to become reality. The economics of that would still be suspect until profits began rolling in and were repaying the loans. It would take a long time for the tollway to recoup the costs of building the road. To my mind, it's just another government Ponzi Scheme. Build it now; pay for it later. yeah, right.

Unless you have the means or sufficient financial backing your dream is doomed from the start. Please tell me how Illinois is going to finance construction when their credit rating is "junk"? No one will buy bonds to finance the road with that credit rating. They would almost be guaranteed to lose their investement.

We all want the most expedient way of getting from point A to point B. The interstate highways that were built during the Eisnehower administration gave us a means of accomplishing that but in the years since then those highways have become as crowded as were the federal and state highways of days gone by. Local roads suffered even worse.

Perhaps we should become more reliant on rail transportation like our European counterparts have. Fuel taxes on cars and trucks support rail there. We use those taxes to support more roads. Granted we have much more area to cover but rail transportation could, if wisely implemented, relieve our highways of congestiuon.  Intermodal and TOFC  help but have a long way to go in accomplishing that.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

As mentioned earlier, the Illinois Toll Highway Authority is self-funding.  Ongoing expenses, maintenance and upgrading costs and payment of bonds issued for new construction come out of toll revenue. 

[mudchicken]

The highway bubbas arrogantly charged into the issue and collided head-on with the railroad federal exemption. The railroad does not have to tell them whether or not it will be employed. What were the knuckleheads in Springfield thinking?

Ought to be fun to watch when fair compensation is brought up and the coffers are empty.

IDOT just discovered they weren't the only 800 pound gorilla in the room. Awkward.

[Deggesty]

How much  money do the toll people have set aside? Enough to build a new yard out in the sticks?

[Buslist]

mudchicken

The highway bubbas arrogantly charged into the issue and collided head-on with the railroad federal exemption. The railroad does not have to tell them whether or not it will be employed. What were the knuckleheads in Springfield thinking?

Ought to be fun to watch when fair compensation is brought up and the coffers are empty.

IDOT just discovered they weren't the only 800 pound gorilla in the room. Awkward.

 

Actually the Tollway Authority is separate from IDOT. They have their own bonding power (which is used to cover construction costs). The bonds are separately rated from those of the state and is based on expected income from tolls  the state's financial condition is not relavent. 

[CShaveRR]

A few things from a local:

There are actually two tollway projects involved here.

Interstate 390, formerly (and still colloquially) known as the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway, recently became a tollway, which allowed funding to move the project toward O'Hare from its curret terminus (it's been building eastward for well over a decade; this will be the biggest jump).  It has to cross both the UP and CP, but that will be a relatively straightforward crossing, with the exception of the fact that the railroads will be under the footprint of an interchange, most likely, so there may be several bridges going over those tracks at this point.  Still relatively straightforward--CP is two-main-track CTC, and UP is double-track.

The project that's causing the big hue and cry is Interstate 490, which will run from Interstate 294 in Northlake (the Tri-State Tollway) northward around the western edge of O'Hare, connecting first with Interstate 390 and ultimately with Interstate 90 (the Jane Addams, or Northwest, Tollway).  It has no particularly important use as a bypass route to potential congestion around O'Hare (for example, traffic going north to Wisconsin would still be deposited in the thick of things, and traffic going from the south toward Rockford and vice versa already has good--toll-feee--alternatives).  This is the one that's giving CP headaches, because it goes over a portion of the Bensenville Yard.  But, unless I'm terribly mistaken, this shouldn't be any more of a headache for CP than was the recent shift of the UP main line to accommodate the O'Hare expansion that destroyed much of the old part of the city of Bensenville (and it would probably be not far west of the UP's crossing of the yard).  A pier or several will have to be sunk on CP property to hold up the highway and whatever auxiliary lanes will be needed for a tollway interchange with the street running south of the yard (that may be the real problem).  

The I-490 Tollway, besides crossing the CP tracks, will also have to cross Metra-owned tracks (to the north of the yard--the old MILW main line) and the newly-relocated UP line, and I've heard nothing about objections from either of those entities.

I'm not sure about the precise location of this tollway; I'm going by my memory of a map that I can't find now and saw over a year ago.  Perhaps MC or PDN has some pertinent information that would help explain why this is a big deal to the railroad.

[mudchicken]

Loss of flexibility (elbow room), loss of buffer area,  track geometry where switching leads go, clearance headaches, future needs, loss of long track storage capability....

 

(*) railroads historically are looked at by highway engineer planners as a source of cheap R/W acquisition. The highway bubbas have just about acquired all the railroads will consider as surplus in urban areas. (the recent chicken fight in Minneapolis ove CP-BNSF junction expansion is a microcosim of this in the reverse...local government playing dirty just to impede a CP-BNSF connection in an industrial area.)

[CShaveRR]

I still didn't find the map I was looking for, showing where the road is supposed to cross the yard, but I did see that it's supposed to (from the south) curve westward and parallel CP tracks along the south side of existing tracks before going up and over them on its way north. 

You just know that the tollway will get built, but I hope that the issues MC described can be addressed in a way that will satisfy CP's plans for future modifications...it would be interesting to see exactly where CP is feeling the pinch, and why.  

My feelings stem from the fact that as long as I've been in the area, MILW/SOO/CP has been all about contracting its footprint in the Bensenville area (diesel shop and roundhouse have gone; the hump yard has been all but flattened, etc.), and I came from a railroad that had cut its own throat by selling off former yard property, yet still managed to shoehorn a good-sized intermodal facility into the middle of what was left.

As for the Interstate 390 thing, the two main lines (CP and UP) will be crossed by at least five overpasses, in connection with that road's interchange with I-490.  One of these five may have to do with western access to O'Hare; anything else in connection with that project would not pertain to railroad right-of-way.

[blue streak 1]

Is the tollway authority a constitutional agency ?  If not the dire condition of the state's finances could have the state raiding the tollway authority ? 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

That's exactly what the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania did to the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission about 5 years ago, to raise more $ for PennDOT.  The Turnpike's tolls increase every year as a result (plus its ambitious reconstruction/ expansion program). 

- PDN. 

[schlimm]

Paul_D_North_Jr

That's exactly what the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania did to the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission about 5 years ago, to raise more $ for PennDOT.  The Turnpike's tolls increase every year as a result (plus its ambitious reconstruction/ expansion program). 

- PDN. 

 

Both parties in Illinois have been shortchanging the pension fund contributions for years.  But the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority is a very powerful (also corrupt) political entity and is unlikely to be raided with any success. It has not happened in its almost 60 year history.